481: Puffed Products
Matthew:
Do you have your puffed products on hand?
Molly:
I do. I have a bag of puffed products here in the closet with me.
Matthew:
Me too.
Molly:
I'm Molly.
Matthew:
I'm Matthew.
Molly:
This is Spilled Milk, the show where we cook something delicious, eat it all, and well, we don't even share it with each other.
Matthew:
Nope. Apparently, we always start this show by asking our traditional question, do you have your puffed products handy?
Molly:
Yeah. Today's episode is all about puffed products, aka puffed snacks or extruded snacks.
Matthew:
You may know them by the brand name Popchips. I think some of the things that I bought are not really quite made in the same way. You know what? I don't care because I don't play by the rules.
Molly:
Oh, that's how I always think of you, Matthew.
Matthew:
That's right.
Molly:
This episode is-
Matthew:
I wear a leather jacket. I know people are talking about hair parts a lot. If I had hair, I would part it-
Molly:
Oh my God, wait, hair parts? Do you mean the parts of an actual strand of hair or?
Matthew:
Yeah. People are talking about the follicle, the-
Molly:
The stamen, is that a part of the hair?
Matthew:
I can't think of one. Yeah, the stamen, the pistil, the ovary. People are talking about all of these classic hair parts, the peach fuzz. Yes. Anyway, if I had hair, I would party in whatever is the most rebellious way.
Molly:
Great. This episode was suggested by listener Christina. Thank you, listener Christina.
Matthew:
I said just call it Popchips because that's the name everyone knows, and Molly's like, "No, we can do whatever we want. We don't play by the rules." What if we're going to call the episode puffed products? When it pops up in your podcast player, people are going to be like, "What? I'll just wait till next week."
Molly:
It reminds me of... What is that company? goPuff or something that's founded on the idea of food delivery, because you're high and you've got the munchies.
Matthew:
I haven't heard of this, but I'm not surprised it exists.
Molly:
I have a family member who used to work for that company.
Matthew:
Oh, wow. That would be your seven-year-old, right?
Molly:
Yeah. Anyway, so Matthew, let's go down memory lane. What memory lane do you have of puffed products?
Matthew:
I vaguely remember when these hit the shelves, but I don't think I tried them at that time, except, you know what, probably the first time I tried one of these puffed snacks was when they set up a little table inside the Broadway QFC and said, "Would you like to try this free product?" Then you taste it, and then you have to say, "That's good," and then pretend that maybe you'll buy it.
Molly:
My daughter loves those little food sampling stations.
Matthew:
Of course, kids love that. I mean, I also do.
Molly:
I don't really. I'm always like-
Matthew:
I mean, the stuff is rarely good, but I'd still like free food.
Molly:
It's true. Well, the way that I came to know of these chips was through my then father-in-law, who I think is really the perfect category in the snack industry. He is health conscious, but he likes to snack.
Matthew:
Do you think they have a framed photo of him in the boardroom at puffed enterprises or whatever?
Molly:
I do. They're like, "This is our target audience." Anyway, I remember him picking up if not a bag of Popchips, maybe pop corners, which I think we're also going to be tasting today, which are a bit different. We'll talk more about how these were marketed. I was really turned off by the marketing of it, and so I have not eaten very many of these.
Matthew:
Me too. Same here. If something is marketed as healthy food in a bag, I'm like, "I don't need this."
Molly:
Well, let's get on with what this category is. Shall we?
Matthew:
You tell me. You did the research for this episode, and it sounds like it was an intense bout of research.
Molly:
This research was challenging to do because as you can imagine, you enter in the search term puffed products to Google, and really not much happens, so you have to start drilling down into other search terms like puffed snacks, extruded snacks.
Matthew:
Yes, this is generally what happens when you make up a term and then try and search for it.
Molly:
Anyway, puffed snacks also known as extruded snacks are a category in the snack industry, and this is a big and growing category. This is the, I don't know what, new trendy thing four years ago.
Matthew:
What's a popular series? It's like the Fast and Furious of snacks.
Molly:
Oh my God, you love Fast and Furious so much.
Matthew:
I do. I believer-
Molly:
It is your favorite movie franchise.
Matthew:
I think F9 is coming out in April or May probably VOD. I don't care how much they're charging for it on day one. If it's $36, I'm going to pay.
Molly:
Oh my god. I hope that the readers who are active on our subreddit are... I hope they're talking right now about your love for Fast and Furious. Maybe you guys can have a watch party.
Matthew:
Maybe we can have a watch party. Maybe we can have a thread where we rank the movies from best to worst in our personal pantheon.
Molly:
Cool.
Matthew:
Puffed snacks and puffed products.
Molly:
Puffed snacks, in general, what this refers to is this hybrid thing, this air popped chip cracker popcorn thing, like it doesn't exist in nature.
Matthew:
They didn't find a field of puffed products growing or a mine?
Molly:
No. No. It wasn't just somebody like... You can imagine how potato chips came to be, that somebody sliced a potato and dropped it in a pan of oil. Then they were like, "Oh, this is yummy." No, no, this was much more complicated.
Matthew:
Well, I mean, that's how potato chips are made is you take a potato and you drop it in a pan of oil. Well, you slice it first.
Molly:
Yes. No. You just dropped off a whole potato.
Matthew:
You just drop a whole potato, and then it explodes. This sounds like we're baking a chip commercial, like you drop a potato into a kettle of oil, and chips would explode out of it.
Molly:
Yes. Oh my God.
Matthew:
Kettle chips. You could hire us. We'll give you that idea for, I don't know, $700,000.
Molly:
Anyway, puffed snacks are this hybrid. Think like a chip meets a cracker meets like the concept of popcorn.
Matthew:
Now, you keep saying meet, but there's no meats involved, right?
Molly:
No, there are no meats involved. In fact, these tend to be made with things that aren't just like potato or corn. People really like to use these as a vehicle for shoving protein into people and vegetables.
Matthew:
Yes. Now, you said that this is not something found in nature. It's a new product. But if you look at the back of the Popchips bag, it says, "The classic stand the test of time." For example, combining potatoes and sea salt dates back to the year 1,000 BC. Nice try, Popchips.
Molly:
Who does this kind of nonsense?
Matthew:
I mean, I think probably it goes back well before that.
Molly:
Oh my god. Hold on. Let me finish here, and then we'll get around to Popchips. These puffed snacks, they're often made with gluten-free wheat alternatives. Many of them are low sugar, and they're marketed with all these hype words like light and clean, oh my god, clean, healthier. Anyway, they do tend to have fewer and simpler ingredients than some other chips and snacky things.
Matthew:
I mean, I think it depends because like Lay's, that one are plain potato chip tasting are really just potatoes and oil and salt.
Molly:
Yes, that's true. That's true.
Matthew:
Whereas, Cool Ranch Doritos have 150 ingredients, every one of them absolutely necessary.
Molly:
If you see a lentil chip or something, this probably fits under the category of a puffed snack. Cauliflower chips, things like that, granted, there is often flour of some sort to bind these things.
Matthew:
Or some kind of starch also, right?
Molly:
Yes. Exactly. Anyway, these things are made in a way that I still struggle to... I think this is going to be an opportunity for our listeners to send in drawings. I still struggle to picture how these are made.
Matthew:
Is there a video?
Molly:
I couldn't find a video, but I got real tired researching this stuff, and maybe I gave up too soon. Anyway, most of these puffed snacks are made through a combination of heat and pressure. One of the most common methods is extrusion in which a mixture of ingredients is forced through a tube with a tiny opening.
Matthew:
Okay, against its will.
Molly:
Do you know anything else that is forced through a tube with a tiny opening?
Matthew:
Do you want me to answer, or do you want me to let you deliver the punchline of this joke that you're so proud of?
Molly:
It's fine. I'll move on, a baby, everybody.
Matthew:
It's a baby.
Molly:
It's a baby. Anyway, so that's how-
Matthew:
Babies are like puffed humans.
Molly:
Extruded snacks.
Matthew:
That's my cute animal of the week. It's puffed humans aka babies.
Molly:
Anyway, so what happens is as you are forcing this mixture of ingredients through a tube with a tiny opening pressure and heat buildup, and the pressure and heat vaporize the moisture inside the mixture, and create steam that both cooks the mixture and puffs it up with air.
Matthew:
I mean, in principle, I understand what you're saying, but you're right, it's weird that this works, right?
Molly:
It is really weird that this works. We're going to talk more-
Matthew:
It makes you think about all the things they must have tried extruding in this way that didn't puff, and must have worked ridiculous and probably broke the machine.
Molly:
I know. The interesting thing is that early in the puffed foods snack production, manufacturing journey, the products were most often made from cornmeal. I guess this lent itself particularly well to these extrusion, heat and pressure situations, but then, innovations in the machinery have enabled them to use all these other ingredients like lentils and whatever to puff these things full of hot air.
Matthew:
Right. No, one thing I didn't get that occurred to me later, for a while, the snacks you give your kids was the puffy-
Molly:
Yes, those yogurt puffed things.
Matthew:
Oh no, I was going to say the ones that look like pea pods, so you can pretend its vegetables.
Molly:
Yes. Yes.
Matthew:
I didn't get those or the yogurt ones.
Molly:
There's so much puffed stuff on the market. I do think that we should specify that what we're talking about here are, I think, exclusively things that act like and look like chips.
Matthew:
Exactly. That was the criterion I used.
Molly:
We're not doing Cheetos puffs or anything related, Pirate's Booty. We're not doing those weird yogurt puffed things for babies that come in like tennis ball cans.
Matthew:
Now, having said that, do you think they could puff pepperoni, because I would be so into that?
Molly:
Well, it's got so much protein, and there's not a lot of starch in there. I imagine-
Matthew:
Can't we at least try?
Molly:
Well, you could have a pepperoni flavored puff. I mean, why don't you have your pepperoni Popchips or something?
Matthew:
That's a good idea. I'll write to Popchips.
Molly:
Speaking of Popchips, we're going to do a little deep dive here into Popchips, because they were the market... What's the term for one of the first things at its category?
Matthew:
Pioneer, were they the pioneer?
Molly:
A pioneer. They were a pioneer.
Matthew:
Were they on the vanguard?
Molly:
They were. They were. Anyway, hold on. I'm going to look at my bag here.
Matthew:
Were they the first mover?
Molly:
Oh, they've changed the slogan. The slogan that I saw online for Popchips was, "Think popped. Never fried, never baked." I was like, "What kind of slogan is that?" That is not a slogan. Think popped?
Matthew:
Well, it funny. The never baked part is really funny, because I understand-
Molly:
Never fried.
Matthew:
... that people have a phobia of fried foods, but I've never heard someone say, "I just got it cut down, and now I have to bake stuff." I mean...
Molly:
Well, so now with the bag... You loved it.
Matthew:
That's very funny.
Molly:
That is very funny. To be fair, some people are like, "Oh, I gotta eat fewer baked goods."
Matthew:
You're right.
Molly:
Baked chips are not a thing people usually avoid, right?
Matthew:
When can I start eating chips by the way?
Molly:
Hold on. Just a second. Now, the bag says, "Never fried. Always real."
Matthew:
Thanks.
Molly:
You can go ahead and open these.
Matthew:
We should have cheese plate wise. We should probably start with a Popchips potato and sea salt, right?
Molly:
Yeah. Hold on. I'm going to put my mic down and open the bag. I'm going to taste one.
Matthew:
By the way, warning, this episode is going to have so much crunching starting now.
Molly:
Down and open the bag, I'm going to taste one.
Matthew:
It is going to have so much crunching starting now.
Molly:
I got a... Oh god, my bag is not opening cleanly. Oh geez, oh god. I'm being a real mess at this.
Matthew:
I'm sorry. I don't mean to laugh at your misfortune, but that's what I'm doing.
Molly:
Hang on. Hold on. Can you hear me enough? I mean, I'm back here in the back-
Matthew:
Yeah, kind of.
Molly:
This is tastier than I expected.
Matthew:
They're fine. I mean...
Molly:
I do like the crunch, but-
Matthew:
Well, I snack on these certainly. Are they as good as a potato chip? I don't think so.
Molly:
No. What's in these? Dried potato, sunflower and or safflower oil, rice flour, potato starch, sea salt and salt.
Matthew:
Do you know what these are like that is very nostalgic for me?
Molly:
What?
Matthew:
Here's my memory lane. Before there were Popchips, and I think this was a more traditionally fried product, but there was this thing called O'Boises that I'm pretty sure we've talked about on the show before, which were a potato chip that they couldn't call a potato chip because it wasn't made from sliced potatoes. It was made from a batter, and so they were puffy and bubbly, and really light and light in their crunch. Their slogan was O'Boise's are O-boisterous. I think they're called O'Boise's because they were made in Boise, Idaho, or we're supposed to indicate that because that's potato country.
Matthew:
They weren't on the market for very long, but I liked them.
Molly:
I like this.
Matthew:
I like these fine. I don't think I'm going to buy them again when potato chips continue to exist.
Molly:
No. Let me...
Matthew:
Until the liberals in Congress ban potato chips, I'm going to keep buying them.
Molly:
Hold on. Let's get back to how these came to be. I read an article in Forbes. I think this might be the first article I've ever read in Forbes.
Matthew:
You don't have a subscription to Forbes?
Molly:
No. All right, Keith Belling, CEO and co-founder of Popchips said, "We set out to do something completely different by applying the science of one product to another." What he's referring to here is his 2005 purchase and conversion of a rice cake plant in LA, and the way that he retooled it to make a new kind of potato chip applying the same heat and pressure process to potato stuff that had been applied to rice.
Matthew:
Potato stuff.
Molly:
Well, because I want to be clear here. It doesn't seem obvious to me... I'm about to tell you ho rice cakes are made, and it doesn't seem obvious to me how this would translate to potatoes.
Matthew:
Well, but we need to be thinking as we go through this episode of we're not going to make our buck... What's a good expression for getting rich? It's not make our buck.
Molly:
We're not going to...
Matthew:
We're not going to make our first billion in the podcasting industry. We need to buy a food factory, and convert it to producing a slightly different food using the same methods. We need to think about what that's going to be, maybe some sort of bottled chip.
Molly:
Bottled chip.
Matthew:
We buy an old Coca-Cola bottling plant, and just throw potatoes into the machine and see what happens.
Molly:
Yes. More on that in a minute.
Matthew:
Or throw a pepperoni. What about a bottled crispy pepperoni beverage?
Molly:
Well, I love that you are suggesting beverages, because Keith Belling, once again, CEO and co-founder of Popchips, was apparently motivated by the success of vitamin water. Dude was obsessed with vitamin water and how it had taken the market by storm. Then sold to Coca-Cola for $4 billion or something. Keith Belling, CEO and co-founder of Popchips, he adopted virtually every strategy that vitamin water had used. He said, "I hope Popchips will be the Vitaminwater of the snack aisle."
Matthew:
I don't know how to describe this genre exactly, but I work for a company, and sometimes, we're suggested that we read a business book or something. I've read books about marketing and customer service and stuff. There's this idolizing of successful brands that I find to be the least interesting thing in the world. Just like, "How does Pepsi do what it does," and connect with consumers like, "Wow." There's almost nothing I give less of a fuck about.
Molly:
Yes, I totally agree.
Matthew:
I do love the corporate history that you bring to any show that we do on corporate food.
Molly:
No. I mean-
Matthew:
Don't get me wrong.
Molly:
I know that you can respect my research abilities and still find Keith Belling's motivations to be stupid.
Matthew:
Exactly. You're great. Keith Belling, I withhold judgment, except I'm being very judgey.
Molly:
I do like Popchips better than I thought I would.
Matthew:
For sure.
Molly:
Hang on, though. I want to talk a little bit about how rice cakes or puffed rice cakes, the things that our moms probably bought in the '80s.
Matthew:
I ate tons of rice cakes in the '80s, for sure.
Molly:
Oh my God. My mom was perpetually on a diet in the '80s, and so I think that she really liked rice cakes as a food that was diet friendly. You could put peanut butter on it, and you essentially had no calories.
Matthew:
Sure. Exactly.
Molly:
Anyway, so let's talk about how those rice cakes are made. For the record, I really a salted rice cake. You know what I mean?
Matthew:
Oh yeah, they're not bad at all.
Molly:
I can still get way down on that stuff.
Matthew:
I don't think I've had one in many years.
Molly:
I haven't either, but there was a time...
Matthew:
Did we do an episode?
Molly:
On rice cakes? I don't know, but we'll find out.
Matthew:
Here's what we should do. I want to do an episode on rice cakes, which maybe we already did. I'm looking it up now. We haven't. Let's do an episode on rice cakes, one week, and then the following episode, let's do an episode on rice cakes in the sense of the sliced Korean rice cakes that you can put in a soup or stir fry.
Molly:
That are chewy.
Matthew:
Yeah. Wouldn't that be great to be able to say rice cakes, and then rice cakes again, and people will be like, "Oh they made a mistake. They posted last week's episode again," but we all know better.
Molly:
Oh, yes. This sounds so fun and sneaky.
Matthew:
You know who will be the object of this prank? Ourselves when people don't bother to listen to that episode.
Molly:
Hold on. Matthew, can I talk about how rice cakes are made?
Matthew:
Please.
Molly:
Get your pencil ready, and see if you can draw this. For rice cakes. grains of rice are hydrated to a specific percentage generally between 14% and 18% of the weight of the rice. Then they are placed in small quantities in the cylindrical chamber of a rice cake puffing machine. There, metal plates compress the moistened rice patty. I guess that's now what we're calling the small quantity in the chain.
Matthew:
A moistened rice paddy is where they grow rice.
Molly:
Right. It does seem that way, doesn't it? There, metal plates compress the moistened rice patty and heat it for a few seconds to temperatures of 400 degrees Fahrenheit or higher. The upper plate is then lifted, causing the rice grains to puff due to the sudden release of water vapor as a result of flash vaporization. The softened rice fuses together and forms the cake.
Matthew:
All right, I can get behind that.
Molly:
Thank you to Serious Eats for explaining that. We'll link to the Serious Eats' piece where I found that explanation. Apparently, Popchips does the same thing but with potato starch.
Matthew:
All right, I got it. They put some starch in the rice cake machine, only it's a smaller machine.
Molly:
It's hydrated starch.
Matthew:
Hydrated starch. It can't be just potato starch, though.
Molly:
Right. It says on the container, dried potato, rice flour, potato starch.
Matthew:
Right. I think they're using something similar to instant mashed potatoes maybe.
Molly:
Oh, okay.
Matthew:
This is a wild guess.
Molly:
So exciting. While we're speculating, let's taste the next thing adjacent on the cheese plate. I think that's the Lay's poppable sea salt.
Matthew:
Here is my-
Molly:
This is a really different thing.
Matthew:
Here's my guilty admission. This is made much more like a potato chip, I think, because it is fried. I opened these two days ago, and they're almost gone.
Molly:
Wait. Hold on. Why are these called poppables? I think these have nothing to do with puffed snacks.
Matthew:
Well, I think they sort of do because they're made from a batter. I mean, the first ingredient is dried potatoes, but it's like if you made the batter that they're going to use to make the puffed chips but then you made it in the shape of a Crispix and fried it instead of puffing it.
Molly:
This tastes like buttered mashed potatoes.
Matthew:
I think these are very good.
Molly:
Can we find a way to describe what they look like?
Matthew:
Well, if you're familiar with the cereal, Crispix, they look like that.
Molly:
But they're bigger.
Matthew:
They're bigger and puffier.
Molly:
They're a little bigger than a quarter. They're puffy. I would say they're easily a half inch.
Matthew:
They look like a-
Molly:
Half-inch deep.
Matthew:
... a mesh bag that you put your delicates in when you're doing laundry, but more edible.
Molly:
Yes. Wait a minute. This has absolutely nothing to do with a puffed product. This is-
Matthew:
Well, I mean, I put it on the list because it said poppable, so I assumed it was the same. It's not but it sure is tasty.
Molly:
It's not.
Matthew:
But it sure is tasty.
Molly:
It tastes like instant mashed potatoes.
Matthew:
I would buy this again. My only complaint about this product is that because it's so light and airy, you can't get enough of it into a bowl unless you use quite a large bowl, and then you feel like a real Sasquatch, which is fine.
Molly:
I love that Sasquatch is where you arrived with that.
Matthew:
A Sasquatch and I like to get together and sit on the couch, I mean, during non-COVID times of course. Sit on the couch with a huge bowl of Lay's poppables.
Molly:
Matthew, I know you have six different types of puffed snacks over there.
Matthew:
We only ended up receiving five from our QFC order.
Molly:
I was only able to get four from my QFC order.
Matthew:
What else do you have?
Molly:
I've got the Popcorners, Kettle corn and I've got Popchips crazy hot.
Matthew:
I've got Popchips crazy hot. I've got the Popcorners. No, I got the white cheddar Popcorners is what I ended up with.
Molly:
Oh, God, I indicated on my order no substitutions.
Matthew:
I got something that seems pretty unpromising which is simple truth popped protein crisp barbecue flavor.
Molly:
I was not sad that that was unavailable.
Matthew:
What are we doing next? Is it the one we both have, the Popchips crazy hot?
Molly:
Let's see the crazy hot.
Matthew:
Let's do it.
Molly:
These Popchip bags are difficult to open. They have a little notch at the top which makes you think, "Oh, it's just going to tear so nicely," and it doesn't.
Matthew:
I got to say mine are tearing so nicely.
Molly:
What kind of pepper do you think this is supposed to be? It's a very vinegary pepper flavor. Do you know what I mean?
Matthew:
There is vinegar. There's a lot of annatto color. I'm not a big fan of these.
Molly:
I'll eat them. I'm not going to throw them away.
Matthew:
No. No. I mean, they're better than no snack.
Molly:
They taste like real chilies, don't you think? This has a fruity chili flavor.
Matthew:
The overall experience is just unbalanced to me somehow. Again, I am going to finish the bag, but I don't like it as much as the plane and certainly not as much as the Lay's.
Molly:
Hold on. Hold on. This is chili pepper, red chilies and a hint of cheddar cheese.
Matthew:
Oh, okay.
Molly:
All right. I like that. Hold on. I gotta go cleanse my palate with the plain one.
Matthew:
Me too.
Molly:
The plain tastes really boring after that.
Molly:
I'm going to now have a poppable again.
Matthew:
True.
Molly:
I'm going to eat a lingerie bag.
Matthew:
We use those to wash our masks.
Molly:
We do too. I thought you meant a poppable.
Matthew:
Yes, [inaudible 00:25:32]. I don't even know what that would look like.
Molly:
Matthew, I was trying to understand the science around what creates a feeling of satiety. Is that it?
Matthew:
Oh, interesting.
Molly:
Is that it?
Matthew:
Satiety, I think.
Molly:
Is that how you pronounce it?
Matthew:
I think that's right. I always for years before I ever heard someone say this, I assumed it was pronounced satiety.
Molly:
I don't think so.
Matthew:
I don't either, but I kind of like... You know what, I just opened the simple truth pop protein crisps barbecue flavor, pretty good.
Molly:
I'm bothered by... I don't love food that is marketed on functional terms.
Matthew:
I don't either.
Molly:
It drives me nuts.
Matthew:
I don't want to buy macronutrients or micronutrients. I just want to buy food.
Molly:
Right. Matthew, I loved how you delivered that. There was just something about your tone of voice. It was great.
Matthew:
Thank you.
Molly:
Anyway, what I was going to say is I have no idea. Oh, texture. Texture.
Matthew:
No, in fact, I'm going to go a step further. I want to buy food that contains no macronutrients or micronutrients.
Molly:
Wait. I just remembered what I was going to say.
Matthew:
Salt for example.
Molly:
I remembered what I was going to say. Apparently, a lot of what leads to a feeling of being satiated, texture, but then I got confused in the article I was reading and couldn't figure out whether... At one point in the article, it seemed like it meant that like... These are designed in part to be a really satisfying textural experience, which they are, but at the same time, there is so little actual nutrient going on here that-
Matthew:
That's the other thing. These Lay's poppables, it's 3.79 for a bag, and the bag is five ounces, so it's mostly air.
Molly:
Well, and the other thing is... I eat a little bowl of potato chips pretty much every single day.
Matthew:
Are they usually Kettle jalapeno?
Molly:
Either Kettle jalapeno or Kettle sea salt, not the crinkle ones, the regular ones.
Matthew:
The brown bag.
Molly:
Anyway, we always have potato chips in the house, and pretty much at some point after 3:00 pm or so, I decide it is time for my bowl of chips.
Matthew:
But it has to be after 3:00 PM because?
Molly:
Well, usually, that's around when I get a little munchie after lunch. Got it?
Matthew:
Yeah.
Molly:
There is something really satisfying about fried chips. I mean, obviously, they have fat in them, which is a satisfying experience for my body on many levels, not to say that this is what I reach for when I'm hungry. But I have to think that... I don't know. Later today, if I fill up a bowl of Popchips, and have that instead of my bowl of potato chips, I just somehow feel like my body is not going to be fooled.
Matthew:
I agree. I had the same thought. I think your body's not stupid, and it can tell the difference between air and oil.
Molly:
Yes. Hold on. I'm opening this.
Matthew:
My body on the other hand is pretty stupid.
Molly:
I'm opening these Popcorners, and now that I see these, I'm remembering that these are what my former father-in-law really liked, Popcorners.
Matthew:
I like the name. It's very silly.
Molly:
These are triangular. They are made from... Hold on. What is it? They're made from corn, right? Hold on. Yeah, yellow corn. This is just yellow corn, sunflower oil, cane sugar and sea salt. This is the sweet and salty Kettle corn popcorner.
Matthew:
I ended up with the white cheddar of these. They taste a lot like a rice cake to me. Not bad.
Molly:
Whoa, this tastes like stale Kettle corn with butter flavoring.
Matthew:
No, mine has the-
Molly:
I mean, don't get me wrong. I just put a second one in my mouth, and I'm going to keep going.
Matthew:
I just got one that was like a little thin and overcooked, and that was the best one.
Molly:
These make me feel a little desperate somehow.
Matthew:
I think it feels like a substitute.
Molly:
I mean-
Matthew:
It's like you wanted a nacho cheese dorito, but you're going to have to settle for this.
Molly:
This is like you wanted Kettle corn.
Matthew:
Kettle corn is very tasty.
Molly:
You wanted Kettle corn, and instead you get the crunchy and wholesome popcorn snack.
Matthew:
You know what is a great snack is actual popcorn.
Molly:
You know what is a great snack? Actual popcorn, indeed.
Matthew:
Yes. I don't remember to do it as often as I would like, but when it's 3:00 PM, crunchy snack time, and I remember, "Oh, we have popcorn, and we have oil." I can make something the whole family is going to come running for in about eight minutes.
Molly:
I've never made popcorn.
Matthew:
You gotta. Here's how you do it. You put a pot on the stove, medium to medium high heat, a saucepan. Put in three kernels and three tablespoons of vegetable oil. Put the lid on, and wait until you hear one of them pop. Then put in a third cup of popcorn, and take it off the heat for about a minute. Then put it back on the heat. Shake it, and with the lid on, let it all pop. When the popping is slowed down to over a second between pops, take it off. Dump it in a bowl. Season it with salt. You're done.
Molly:
Wow. God, Matthew, do you remember when-
Matthew:
So simple.
Molly:
Do you remember when sometimes after, we would record episodes where we would have to eat a bunch of dumb food, we would get really sleepy? Then I would take a nap on your sofa before driving to go pick my child up from school or whether.
Matthew:
But then you'd be awakened from your nap by the sound of popping popcorn?
Molly:
No. No, but I miss hanging out at your house and sleeping on your sofa.
Matthew:
I know.
Molly:
Oh man. It was like the ultimate, unexpected adult... You don't expect as an adult to have a job where you can just take a little cat nap on your co-worker's sofa before leaving and resuming your adult life.
Matthew:
I know, right? I mean, I think maybe you could do that at some cool startup where they have Nerf guns and stuff.
Molly:
I don't want to work at one of those places.
Matthew:
I don't either. I mean, I sort of do work on one of those places, but it's remote, so the Nerf guns would have to be very powerful for us to be able to shoot each other with them.
Molly:
I don't want to work at one of those places.
Matthew:
No, you don't.
Molly:
I mean, don't get me wrong. I don't mind sitting in my closet with all my dirty laundry right now and a paper grocery bag filled with bags of chips, but I'd like to come over and take a nap on your sofa right now. It's just different from my sofa.
Matthew:
I feel like this is going to happen pretty soon.
Molly:
Matthew, I am at the bottom of the list for vaccination.
Matthew:
Supply is on the rise. I'm trying to stay positive. Work with me here.
Molly:
Yes. It's going to happen soon.
Matthew:
My dad got his first shot yesterday. My mom is getting hers on Wednesday.
Molly:
Oh, congratulations, Richard and Judy. This is great. My mom has had her first shot.
Matthew:
Awesome.
Molly:
No, she's had her second shot now. She got her second shot a couple days ago.
Matthew:
That's great.
Molly:
God, it's really, really great. Anyway, so I think that we liked these more than we thought. Is that fair to say?
Matthew:
Yeah, more than I thought. The one that's the most fried was certainly my favorite, the Lay's poppable which doesn't really fit the snacking category. That's the one I'm probably going to buy again when it's on sale. I'm going to finish the other ones, and the offensively marketed protein crisps were better than I expected, but I'm not excited about these, and I didn't expect to be.
Molly:
Have we ever done an episode on shrimp crackers like shrimp cakes?
Matthew:
Oh, like a crew puck?
Molly:
Yes.
Matthew:
We have not. That's a good idea. Those are the original puffed snacks, right?
Molly:
Yes. Oh my god. We have identified in this episode... In the negative space around this episode, we've identified a lot of episodes to be done.
Matthew:
That's true. Two kinds of rice cakes, shrimp chips.
Molly:
I'm really excited because I love the way that those feel when they start to break down on your tongue.
Matthew:
Have you ever had gado-gado, the Indonesian salad with peanut dressing and lots of toppings?
Molly:
No.
Matthew:
It's really good. One of the toppings usually is shrimp chips that you crumble on. Really good.
Molly:
Oh my god, that sounds brilliant. All right, coming soon to a Spilled Milk near you.
Matthew:
Yes. All right.
Molly:
Al right, Matthew, let's move into our segments.
Matthew:
Let's move into our segments, just like insects do, especially... What's a specially segmented insect? A caterpillar?
Molly:
I guess, although, I mean, what I was thinking-
Matthew:
Centipede, that's what I was thinking, not caterpillar.
Molly:
I was thinking of centipedes or even wasps or hornets. I mean, those are quite nipped in at the waist, very segmented.
Matthew:
Is a centipede like the larva of some kind of flying insect, or is it good to go fully like an adult?
Molly:
Oh, I'm pretty sure that a centipede is its own thing.
Matthew:
Okay. I don't know. Unfortunately, we'll never know.
Molly:
June recently had a whole... They've been learning about basic-
Matthew:
Which things have the most segments?
Molly:
... basic forms of animal life so like arthropods and mollusks and things like that.
Matthew:
Oh, they're learning about phyla.
Molly:
Yes, there you go. They're not using that term, but anyway, there was a lot of talk-
Matthew:
It sounds like her school isn't very rigorous.
Molly:
There was a lot of talk lately about arthropods over here.
Matthew:
Arthropods are by far the most common kind of animal.
Molly:
Oh, they are?
Matthew:
Oh yeah.
Molly:
Wow, cool.
Matthew:
There's more species of insects than everything else combined, I think.
Molly:
That's so cool. In our next life, let's be more segmented.
Matthew:
Let's all try to be more segmented.
Molly:
All right, so Spilled-
Matthew:
Let's start by going into our segments.
Molly:
Oh my god. Spilled Mail.
Molly:
Take it away, Matthew.
Matthew:
This is from listener Meg Wheels, and it comes from the Reddit. I'm defining this Spilled Mail a little more broadly because we don't always get an email at [email protected]. Listener Meg Wheels asked on Reddit, "So I've inherited this from my mom and grandma that you can't eat the same thing for lunch and dinner, not even the same type of food. As an adult, I know this is silly, but I just ate some leftover soup for lunch before I realized I'm also making soup for dinner tonight. For a moment, I thought, "Oh no, I can't eat soup again." What are your views on eating the same thing for lunch and dinner?"
Molly:
This is really interesting. I love this kind of musing-
Matthew:
Me too.
Molly:
... because I instinctively feel the same way.
Matthew:
Me too.
Molly:
It's not like it's some rule that was handed down to me, or something that someone said it's like this internal meter that I have for wanting a certain diversity of foods in the day.
Matthew:
Yes. For me, like... I think having exactly the same thing like some leftovers for lunch and the same leftovers for dinner, that feels pretty sad to me. The same class of thing like if I had one kind of soup for lunch, I eat different soup for dinner, I feel pretty good about that. There's a big exception for pizza, which is any kind of pizza for lunch and any kind of the same pizza or a different pizza for dinner seems totally legit to me.
Molly:
Interesting. For me, it's more about general form. I definitely would not want to like bread-based meals back to back. I wouldn't want pizza at lunch and pizza at dinner. Now, not to say that I haven't done it, but it doesn't feel right to me.
Matthew:
I think I've had focaccia for lunch and pizza for dinner within the last week.
Molly:
Oh, nice. I also don't love the idea of pasta and pizza in the same day, but I've been known to do it a lot.
Matthew:
Well, what to you is the perfect two poles like, that this thing for lunch and this thing for dinner seem like they have no interference with each other in terms of form whatsoever?
Molly:
I think in general, meat and not meat feels like a basic form to me that I tend to be drawn to.
Matthew:
That makes sense. How bout something puffed for lunch and something compressed for dinner?
Molly:
But the compression is part of what made the puff happen.
Matthew:
You're right, but what about compressed watermelon? That's a thing I think exists.
Molly:
Oh my god, do you remember when people used to go out to restaurants and eat stuff like that?
Matthew:
Vaguely. It doesn't seem real anymore.
Molly:
It doesn't. Isn't it weird how fast it stopped seeming real?
Matthew:
Yeah, although to be fair, that kind of dining stopped seeming real to me years ago after I stopped being a professional restaurant critic.
Molly:
I think it stopped feeling real to me a couple years into owning a restaurant when I think like-
Matthew:
Sure. Every day, you would go in and compress the watermelon in the morning.
Molly:
No, we ate in restaurants a lot more once we owned a restaurant, because you get to know people in the industry, and or you just don't want to cook on your day off. I think very quickly, I came to discover that fine dining or "very inventive, innovative dining" was not what I wanted to eat in the sense of fueling myself.
Matthew:
Right. I agree.
Molly:
In general, I think that one really starchy meal a day and one meaty meal a day feels like a really good balance to me.
Matthew:
That sounds pretty good to me too.
Molly:
Anyway, hold on. Matthew, we have another segment, and it's called cute animals.
Matthew:
It's cute animals you need to know.
Matthew:
The cute animal this week also comes from a listener on Reddit. This listener's username is cham_eleon88 or possibly cham_eleaon88, because there's an underscore between cham and eleon. It is Dumpling, a pet puffer fish.
Molly:
I love the idea of a puffer fish that is a pet and that is named Dumpling.
Matthew:
It's very cute.
Molly:
This Reddit user who posted it, is this someone who's in our Spilled Milk subreddit?
Matthew:
That's right.
Molly:
Oh gosh, thank you, listener.
Matthew:
Let's just say chameleon88.
Molly:
Okay. Here we go. Oh my god.
Matthew:
This puffer fish is going to eat some cuttlefish. It's like just this hungry little lump.
Molly:
Oh my god, the cuttlefish is really interesting looking. Oh my god, Dumpling is... Hold on. They're cutting the legs off the cuttlefish, and taking the legs over to Dumpling. Oh my god, Dumpling is so excited. Oh, Dumpling. Oh my god, Dumpling has so much personality.
Matthew:
I know. I think dumpling is our first cute fish maybe.
Molly:
Oh my god, Dumpling. Oh my god, Dumpling is adorable. Oh my God, his big eyes... I'm just in awe of Dumpling.
Matthew:
We will definitely put the link in the episode description.
Molly:
Oh, this is delightful. Everybody go watch Dumpling.
Matthew:
If you have a suggestion for a cute animal, you can post it @reddit.com/r/everythingspilledmilk, or just email it to me at [email protected], an email address where you can get your email directly to me, host Matthew, and I'll read it, and I might even respond.
Molly:
He will read it, and he'll probably forward it to me too. What a guy. Make it good, everybody. I want to see this email too.
Matthew:
Now, it's time for now but wow.
Molly:
Now but wow.
Molly:
Yes.
Matthew:
That was the best segment introduction we've ever heard.
Molly:
Now but wow. Matthew, can I go first?
Matthew:
You may.
Molly:
I have to say that my now but wow this week is something that the rest of the world probably has already been into.
Matthew:
Wait, is it going to be driver's license?
Molly:
No, it's not. It's not. I forever have a lot of books on hold at the library. This week, finally, my hold came up for Ross Gay's Book of Delights. Have you read this book?
Matthew:
I have not.
Molly:
Oh my god, you and I are like the last two people on earth. Anyway, Ross Gay is a poet. This book got a tremendous amount of well-deserved praise. Basically, Ross Gay decided for a whole year to chronicle in casual essays each day. I say casual because I think he had some rules like writing it by hand, not spending too much time, et cetera. He decided to write an essay each day about something that delighted him.
Matthew:
Excellent.
Molly:
From what I understand, it winds up ranging from gardening to I'm not sure what else because I just brought it home from the library. Anyway, I've been waiting for this book forever, and I'm so excited. I don't know why I didn't just go by it, but maybe because it's just so fun to finally have something be ready at the library. I am really excited this week to finally get my hands on the Book of Delights.
Matthew:
My pick this week is the delight of having things come in at the library.
Molly:
Yes. It never ends.
Matthew:
As you said that, first of all, I put a hold on the book at the library as you were telling me about it.
Molly:
Great.
Matthew:
I also have a book that I want to recommend, but I'm going to save it for next week. I'm going to finish that book. This week, I'm going to tell you about a podcast called the Add to Cart podcast, which is hosted by Kulap Vilaysack, who is a great actor and director and comedian, and SuChin Pak. They every week talk about the things that they are adding to their cart, either literally or figuratively, and are deciding whether to go all in on buying or doing that thing. It's both a comedy show and a show that takes surprisingly serious, but still...
Matthew:
You know I'm afraid of serious entertainment.
Molly:
I know you're-
Matthew:
This isn't too serious for me even though they talk about things like discrimination and hate crimes against Asian Americans on a recent episode. This show feels like very real. He's also very funny. That's called Add to Cart. Get it where you get podcasts. It's free.
Molly:
Cool. All right. Well, this has been another episode of Spilled Milk and all its segments.
Matthew:
We did three segments this week just like the three segments... Wait, those aren't...
Molly:
Oh dear.
Matthew:
Wait. An insect has a head, a thorax and an abdomen, but those individual parts might also be segmented, right?
Molly:
I think. I don't know, Matthew. We need to go back to arthropods 101.
Matthew:
We need to go back to arthropods 101. Maybe there's an online arthropods course we could take. Maybe we could just sit in... You're probably already sitting in on online arthropod school with June, right?
Molly:
I am. I am. I have a child doing online learning.
Matthew:
It's your responsibility to soak up this arthropod knowledge, and transmit it to me next week.
Molly:
Oh man.
Matthew:
In the same way that an animal might transmit food to their young by regurgitating it into their mouths.
Molly:
Yes, I can't wait.
Matthew:
I'm looking forward to that. Our episode next week's sneak preview is going to be regurgitated food.
Molly:
Oh my god, everyone has turned off the show by now, Matthew.
Matthew:
It's fine.
Molly:
Let's just wrap it up. Our producer is Abby Cerquitella.
Matthew:
You can find us online spilledmilkpodcast.com, and reddit.com/r/everythingspilledmilk is a great place to talk about the show. I know, that's it, right?
Molly:
I think that's it.
Matthew:
Until next time, thank you for listening to Spilled Milk.
Molly:
The show that's hydrated to a specific percentage, placed in a cylindrical chamber and then goes through flash vaporization in your ears.
Matthew:
I'm Matthew Amster-Burton.
Molly:
I'm Molly Wizenberg.
Molly:
Oh god, oh geez.
Matthew:
You are having so many mishaps.