474: Holiday Cookies 3

Matthew:

I'm Mathew.

Molly:

And I'm Molly

Matthew:

And this is Spilled Milk, the show where we cook something delicious, eat it all and you can't have any.

Molly:

It's Groundhog Day. Not really but we-

Matthew:

Wait. Is it?

Molly:

No. Is it?

Matthew:

I see because...

Molly:

Wait, when is Groundhog Day.

Matthew:

I don't know, in the winter sometime I think.

Molly:

I don't think it's happened yet. This episode is being released on January 28th. I don't think it's happened yet. But what I'm trying to say is we did a Holiday Cookies, two episode back in, was it December or did it air in early January?

Matthew:

I think it was December 2nd, 2020.

Molly:

In that episode, we talked about the fact that this was our second Holiday Cookies episode and we joked that we were just going to keep doing it because Laurie has been engaged in a [crosstalk 00:00:50].

Matthew:

Has been engaged to me. We're getting married.

Molly:

We're here again. It's like Groundhog Day. We're doing Holiday Cookies again.

Matthew:

You are really leaning hard into this Groundhog Day metaphor. I like it.

Molly:

I am. I'm trying to make it be Groundhog Day. It's Holiday Cookies three.

Matthew:

Yes. And this is going to be like the movie Halloween III, where it doesn't really have anything to do with the first two episodes. They totally throw away the existing premise and introduce you to new characters. So I'm Bob.

Molly:

I'm Sue.

Matthew:

Okay. And we're going to have a special guest on the program but let's leave that for, I don't know, probably 17 seconds from now.

Molly:

Okay. So yeah.

Matthew:

I think we need to recap.

Molly:

Let's recap.

Matthew:

Last time back when we were known as Molly and Matthew, instead of Sue and Bob, wife for the show Laurie was engaged.

Molly:

You keep using this verb.

Matthew:

She said engaged and then [crosstalk 00:01:42] engaged.

Molly:

You guys have been engaged for a long time.

Matthew:

Yeah I know. Maybe sometime we'll make it official. I don't know, was working through some issues. And those issues took the form of cookies from the 2001 Sunset Cookies of the year issue. And there were 20 of them total. And as of our last Holiday Cookies episode, she had made 13 of them. And so there were seven remaining. We're not going to recap which 13 we talked about last time. You can go back and listen to that episode, although I'm sure we'll refer to some of them because we're going to talk about some top picks. But there were seven cookies remaining in the Sunset Holiday Cookie project. They were amaretto butter cookies, mocha-marmalade shortbread bars, peppermint molasses cookies, oatmeal cookie sandwiches, apricots buttons, gingerbread cookies and white chocolate raspberry slices.

Molly:

I was describing this, what we were going to be talking about today to Ash this morning. And so I was giving them a recap of this project, of these 20 Sunset Holiday Cookies. And it occurred to me that the fact that this feature in Sunset magazine was from what? 2001. Is that right?

Matthew:

2001. Yeah

Molly:

It's so fitting for our show how we're always on top of the latest trends, how we're always referencing current cultural [crosstalk 00:03:06] stones.

Matthew:

Groundhog Day for example.

Molly:

Yeah. It's so fitting that the project that we are discussing is a cookie magazine story from literally 20 years ago.

Matthew:

Yes. Yes. Well, I think it was probably published in November, December, 2001. So it's not quite 20 years old.

Molly:

Okay. But still it's-

Matthew:

So give us some credit.

Molly:

... it's really in keeping with our timely cultural references.

Matthew:

Yeah, exactly. I'm sure I've mentioned this on the show before. And I don't remember the entirety of the joke. But basically my favorite thing I ever read in the newspaper was there was this advice column... Wait, let's introduce our guests because she probably wants to weigh in on this too. So our guest this week is wife for the show, Laurie. welcome to the show.

Laurie:

Thank you.

Molly:

I can't believe. Wait a minute. This is the first time we've ever had Laurie on the show.

Matthew:

Yes. Laurie has appeared on the show once before in a third love bra advertisement.

Molly:

Welcome back, Laurie.

Laurie:

Thanks.

Molly:

Welcome back for the first time.

Matthew:

Laurie. I think you probably remember this also, it was a letter to an advice column and the letter writer was a concerned parent who is writing because their child kept getting invited over to a friend's house and this friend was letting their child watch quote cool movies like Stripes and Groundhog Day. This letter was published in 2014. So it was not when these movies were new. These were already classic comedy movies. But like-

Molly:

And how did the advice columnist respond to this?

Matthew:

Do you remember?

Laurie:

I don't because we just kept laughing about how there were never any cooler movies than those.

Matthew:

Than Stripes and Groundhog Day. Movies that if you let your child watch them too young, they will be ruined. I think the advice column has probably said, "Chill out, dude."

Molly:

Stripes is so cool that I've never even heard of it.

Matthew:

I don't think I've seen it.

Laurie:

I have not seen it.

Matthew:

I think it's Bill Murray is in the army and it's like 1980. I think that's the premise of the movie.

Molly:

Okay. Somebody should do a movie podcast where they watch movies that aren't very good and talk about them.

Matthew:

I see. I thought a movie podcast where we watch cool movies that could change the life of like an 11-year-old.

Molly:

That too. We'll call it... What spin could we put on Dire Desire to make it [crosstalk 00:05:32]?

Matthew:

Cool reels. Real cool reels because movies come on reels.

Molly:

Cool, cool.

Laurie:

Yes. Movies come on reels.

Matthew:

Yeah. Wait. We're going to do Listener Mail later but I just remembered, someone let us know I think on the Reddit that, remember we were talking about cool movies a couple episodes ago, because we were talking about the movies Once Bitten and Peggy Sue Got Married.

Molly:

Yes.

Matthew:

And somebody Reddit to let us know that Jim Carrey was in the movie Peggy Sue Got Married as well as starring in the movie Once Bitten.

Molly:

Really?

Matthew:

So we were having like our own little Jim Carrey film festival without even realizing it.

Molly:

My gosh. I have seen so few Jim Carrey movies because for a long time he really annoyed me.

Matthew:

I'm not a big fan got to say.

Molly:

The truth comes out. Okay. Okay. So, so far on this episode we have hatched a new podcast idea. We have taken a stand on Jim Carrey and now let's talk about Holiday Cookies.

Matthew:

Let's do it. Okay. I mean, we've got wife for the show, Laurie here at our disposal who made a lot of cookies. I just realized I have no idea how I'm introducing this segment. But let me ask you first, Laurie. What did you learn from... Well, why did you want to do this project in the first place?

Laurie:

Because 2001 is so timely. No. Like a lot of people, I was looking for a project. This was October and I wanted something to do. I'm home more and my family likes to eat cookies.

Molly:

And had you had this story clipped out of Sunset magazine, just like burning a hole in your recipe file?

Laurie:

So I had this literally clip from 2001. I think it is actually the copy that was on my parents' coffee table in Portland, their literal coffee table.

Matthew:

I don't think I knew that.

Laurie:

Yeah. And I had made the cranberry coconut cookies, which I have made a dozen times or maybe even every year. I've made them a lot of times and everybody loves them and they're always really good. And that's why I loved it. But I actually had no idea I had saved the whole article. I have the cranberry coconut recipe in my email. I email it to people all the time because everyone always likes the recipe but then I saw it and I was like, "I have 19 other cookies. It seems like it could be fun."

Matthew:

That reminds me, I've been meaning to tell you that I'm really looking forward to when we're able to go to Portland and visit your parents again so I can catch up on Sunset magazine.

Laurie:

That's right.

Molly:

Okay. All right. So Laurie, we have occasionally on the show had a segment called What Have we Learned? So I do want you to walk us through these last seven cookies. But before we do that, I want to get like a big fly over. What did you learn about yourself, about cookies, about ambition through this project?

Laurie:

So one of the things I learned is that people have very different tastes in cookies and in particular, Matthew and I have very different tastes in cookies. I didn't really understand this yet. I started to think my next magazine article I needed to consult was, can this marriage be saved probably from 2001? Because we did not like any of the same cookies and in fact, Matthew at one point... Well, the first recipe I made was chocolate chip meringue. And he said, "Yeah, I don't think we're really meringue family." And then he gave a classic like, "Well, somebody's eating those cookies pretty quickly." So he did like the chocolate chip meringues.

Molly:

I feel like The Gottman Institute would not like the way that you framed that question.

Matthew:

Yeah. No, I got one of those popups from Gmail that says, "You haven't opened any emails from The Gottman Institute in 17 years. Do you want to unsubscribe automatically?"

Molly:

Yeah. Because that seems very as the patriarch of the family-

Matthew:

That's me.

Molly:

... it seems like our family doesn't like these cookies.

Matthew:

I don't recall this incident but I can't prove that it didn't happen.

Laurie:

But the meringues, I think part of the thing was they were chocolate chip. And so one thing we've learned that especially Matthew in December will almost always prefer any chocolate cookie over a non chocolate cookie. And so I feel like we have learned a lot about our family and this helps us to make some good choices, usually brownies.

Molly:

Brownies equal good choices.

Matthew:

Have you ever had this experience where there was something you knew and then later you realized you were confirming the thing you already knew? Because I went into this project thinking, "Boy, I got to try all these different cookies." And I should have already known about myself that the only cookies I really like are chocolate cookies. And so those were all my favorites.

Molly:

I think that I'm with you there. But I think it's this human nature thing to not be able to see your own tendencies. Right?

Matthew:

Yeah. Didn't you write a book about this?

Molly:

Yes. Yes. I think this is...

Matthew:

We haven't plugged your book in too long, The Fixed Stars. It's great. It's available anywhere books are sold.

Molly:

Anyway. Okay. Well, I love the progress we're making in your marriage through talking about these cookies. So can we go cookies [crosstalk 00:10:47].

Matthew:

I did not realize that's what I was signing up for when we planned this episode, but okay.

Molly:

Can we go cookie by cookie and hear about them?

Matthew:

Yeah. So just the last seven, right?

Molly:

Yes. Yes.

Matthew:

Because we went cookie by cookie and you got my opinion on them, which is probably not fair but in the interest of not revisiting 13 cookies.

Molly:

Yeah. I think Laurie, if it's all right with you, let's just do the last seven.

Laurie:

I'd like to hear what Matthew says about the last seven. Because when I listened to the previous episode, there were some comments that raised my eyebrows.

Matthew:

Okay. Yeah. And your eyebrows have been raised ever since. I thought it was like a new like cosmetics routine but okay. So amaretto butter cookies. Do you want me to go first on each one?

Laurie:

Mm-hmm (affirmative)

Matthew:

Okay. I remember these being quite tasty. You could really taste the almond and they had... Didn't they have like...

Molly:

Wait, wait, can you give me a quick visual of each cookie? What did they look like? What was the texture, et cetera?

Matthew:

I do not remember what these cookies looked like.

Molly:

My God, Matthew.

Matthew:

What's more important about a cookie, the way it looks or the way it tastes? It sounds like you're saying it's the way it looks.

Molly:

Definitely the way it tastes but Laurie, help.

Laurie:

So the amaretto butter cookies are like a round butter cookie. And they were actually really pretty because they had sliced almonds on the top fanned out. So I like them because they looked fancy even though I did not do anything really except stick some almonds on the top.

Matthew:

And did those have almond paste in them as well as...

Laurie:

No.

Matthew:

No? Okay.

Laurie:

I don't think so. They had amaretto in the dough.

Matthew:

Okay. Yeah. Because I remember them having a really good almond flavor. Another thing that happened on the previous episode is I kept describing things as like a shortbread cookie. And Laurie was like, "You really don't know what a shortbread cookie is, do you?. And I was like, "No."

Molly:

Was this like a shortbread cookie?

Laurie:

Yes.

Matthew:

I was going to say that and then I was afraid.

Laurie:

It's a crisp.

Molly:

Okay. So I want to hear the qualitative assessment.

Matthew:

These were among my favorites. It's a simple cookie but the almond flavor came through intensely and I love an almond flavored thing.

Laurie:

And I like this one and [Teen 00:12:53] of the show December really liked this a lot. They said this was the one they kept like grabbing out of the container, which I was a little surprised but I was very pleased.

Molly:

Nice. Next up. Well, I don't know. I mean, Matthew, is there a reason why you put these in this order on the agenda? Should we just-

Matthew:

No. I looked through the article. I think this might be the order in which they appear in the article among the cookies that hadn't been made that we hadn't talked about yet.

Molly:

All right, let's go for the next one.

Matthew:

All right. Mocha-marmalade shortbread bars. We mentioned this on the last episode because I was so curious because it sounded like a combination that I would never have come up with and it tasted like a combination I never would have come up with and do not want to encounter again. The coffee flavored shortbread seemed like it might be good but then it had a layer of marmalade and particularly the bitter orange together with the coffee just did not work for me. Laurie, what did you think?

Laurie:

No one loved those, Matthew. So mostly Matthew's parents have gotten a couple of each to try. And my sister's family have also tried. Actually, my sister refused these because she hates coffee flavor but no one who tasted them really loved them. So this was definitely a case of something we expected not to like and we did not like it.

Molly:

So there was layer of shortbread, a mocha shortbread.

Laurie:

Yes. So pressed in the bottom of a pan. Yeah

Molly:

And then you just painted it with marmalade.

Laurie:

And then spread a layer of marmalade on and then spread melted chocolate over the marmalade.

Molly:

Okay.

Matthew:

It seemed like a prank. Why did you put a layer of marmalade in it?

Laurie:

I guess prank makes sense because what I thought about this is that it was a cookie that adults might eat that kids would find horrifying. It's a thing kids would think something grownups would like and kids would hate it.

Molly:

Yeah. I don't love the idea of this. I mean, despite the fact that I used to write a blog that was named for a confection that was-

Matthew:

That's a good point.

Molly:

... candied orange dipped in chocolate. I don't love orange and chocolate that much in any other form. And especially not the idea of the bitterness of marmalade. I'm pretty particular about when I want marmalade anyway. I love marmalade on popovers for instance. Anyway.

Laurie:

Or crumpets. Really good on crumpets.

Matthew:

Yeah. No. I'm not opposed to marmalade just like these three things together. I think the coffee and the marmalade did not work for me even though the idea of having a scone with marmalade and a cup of coffee, I mean that sounds good I guess.

Molly:

Sounds fantastic.

Matthew:

Next up, peppermint molasses cookies. These were really good. Okay. Is part of the bid here going to be that I'm going to try and remember what the cookies were.

Molly:

Yeah. Yeah.

Matthew:

It was like a chewy molasses cookie with crunched up candy cane bits in it. And also maybe the cookie itself was flavored with mint extract.

Laurie:

No. It had peppermint glaze on the top.

Matthew:

Peppermint glazed. Right.

Laurie:

That was the main thing. Yeah.

Matthew:

But also it did have those chunks though, right?

Laurie:

Yeah.

Molly:

This strikes me as too many strong flavors going on. I would never think to put candy cane next to a chewy molasses cookie. And I cannot imagine the two of them together. It seems really weird.

Matthew:

Yeah. But I mean, I liked it. I just like what I like.

Laurie:

Well Molly, I had basically the same thought but Matthew's mom in particular, Judy really loved this one. She said it might be her number one. And it was just really interesting because she is a great baker and has those a lot about desserts and baking and recipes. And she said, "Who would think there would be a new combination to her?" And she thought it was great. And it worked somehow.

Matthew:

Did she like mocha-marmalade?

Laurie:

She didn't say much. Not really. Yeah.

Matthew:

Okay.

Molly:

Okay. God. Okay. I'm very curious to see this recipe. I wonder if Laurie might be willing to share.

Matthew:

We made the entire Sunset article available and so far no one has told us to take it down. So we will link to it again in the show notes. It has all the recipes we're talking about.

Molly:

Great. Okay.

Matthew:

Okay. Next up. I'm very excited to just talk about this one, oatmeal cookie sandwiches.

Molly:

Wait, hold on. This has the weirdest syntax of any cookie name.

Matthew:

Because it sounds like the cookies in the middle of the sandwich.

Molly:

Yeah It should be like an oatmeal sandwich cookie.

Matthew:

Yeah.

Molly:

Right? I mean, what is an oatmeal cookie sandwich?

Matthew:

I mean, a cookie sandwich sounds like a cookie on two slices of bread.

Molly:

Right. Okay. But what is it really

Matthew:

It's two lacy oatmeal cookies, like lacy caramelly with a very thick in texture, spread of ganache, chocolate ganache in the middle.

Laurie:

That's very accurate.

Matthew:

Really?

Laurie:

Yeah.

Matthew:

What makes a cookie lacy like that?

Molly:

Lots of butter I'll bet.

Laurie:

Right. And not much flour.

Matthew:

Yeah. That makes sense.

Molly:

This sounds like a very fancy hobnob.

Matthew:

Yeah. Except like hobnobs are more like... I mean, yes, it's got the oat flavor. Hobnobs are all about that knobbly texture and this is more of a crispy chewy texture. And this one, they were bad omen as it was being made. Do you recall?

Laurie:

Yes. I thought the ganache seemed like it was very thick and weird. And also the original recipe is called for making it mint ganache. And I just decided I am not putting oatmeal and mint chocolate together. Oatmeal and chocolate, yes. Mint, no. But then the ganache seemed weird and the cookies were sticking to the pan and I was trying to pry them off and I thought it was a total failure but then some just plunged ahead. And I still thought they were a little strange but Matthew in December really liked them.

Matthew:

Yeah. This was easily in my top two. These were the ones where they didn't last a day.

Laurie:

Also, I was only making half recipes. So this one only made like cookies.

Matthew:

Yeah. But I ate five of them.

Molly:

God, I find ganache to be finicky. And I mean, of course it is because it's chocolate and you got to worry about tempering and moisture and all that stuff but it doesn't surprise me that this one gave you some trouble because I also think that the texture of a cookie like this could be difficult to work with and difficult to... Did it have a tendency to break or crack when you were putting ganache on it?

Laurie:

Yes. Yes. I mean, one pan they seemed too soft and then the next pan seemed possibly over done. The whole time, I was just like, "I don't think this is working." But in the end it worked magic.

Matthew:

You know how I would describe the texture of these cookies, especially the ones that came out softer or less crispy. You know how when you're a kid and you would take a slice of Wonder Bread and squeeze it into a ball in your hand and then eat it. You could do that to these cookies and it would be great.

Molly:

I'm just picturing it. I'm just listening to you two muse about this. And I'm just picturing it.

Matthew:

Let's weight all these cookies on a squeeze ability scale.

Molly:

Was it like when you can do that with a piece of cheap white sandwich bread? Is this what we're talking about?

Matthew:

Yes.

Molly:

Okay. How about the apricots buttons? Are those squishable?

Matthew:

They are not. Those have more of a not crispy, like-

Laurie:

A little more on the chewy.

Matthew:

But shortly after they were made, they had a little bit of crisp to them.

Molly:

Was this a thumbprint cookie?

Laurie:

Yeah. It was Basically your classic thumbprint cookie dipped in ground walnuts and then thumb printed. Yeah.

Matthew:

This was probably like in my top two for non chocolate cookies.

Molly:

Okay. Was there anything other than like vanilla in the cookie dough itself?

Laurie:

No. This was the one, I think of the apricot buttons pretty much of all the 20 recipes, the one that I thought was just a real basic classic Christmas cookie I remembered having all the time when I was a kid.

Molly:

Cool. Did the cookie itself have a shortness to it? Like was it [crosstalk 00:21:07]?

Laurie:

Yeah. A little more towards that side though. Of course after they're filled, then the jam it's often, it's a little bit.

Matthew:

Yeah. I would describe it as like a shortbread cookie but with some jam on it.

Molly:

Carry on. Carry on.

Matthew:

And you made like some of them with apricots and some with raspberry because we had some raspberry jam and they were both good. I liked both cookies.

Molly:

I also love knowing that you made half batches of these things, Laurie. Because when Matthew and I did the previous episode, he didn't specify that. And so I was like, "You guys ate an entire batch of cookies in one day." I mean, I was going to be very impressed with your-

Laurie:

Yeah. We had some trouble towards the beginning when I was just making batches of cookies and then I realized that I could not keep making that many cookies. Just like you talked about in the last episode, it just didn't seem a great idea this year to be sending lots of cookies around though I did share a few within the family. So half batches was definitely a good choice, even though I kept having to have eggs, which is super annoying.

Molly:

It's so annoying. I agree.

Matthew:

I will have eggs for you. Yeah.

Molly:

So sweet you two. Your marriage is already looking up and we are not even done with the episode.

Laurie:

This marriage can be saved.

Molly:

No. I just got an email from John Gottman, he says, "Try separating eggs together." Okay. Next up, gingerbread cookies. These seemed like just gingerbread cookies, right?

Laurie:

Yeah. They were your basic cutout gingerbread cookies. It was interesting because I don't make these a lot more. I make the ginger cookies, the crinkly kind that you roll into balls. I make those a lot but not the rollout kind. They were made with oil and no butter, which I thought was a little odd but that made them very very easy to cut up and roll and I thought they tasted great.

Matthew:

Yeah. I thought these were fine. There's never going to be a gingerbread person cookie that blows my mind. I don't think. But maybe, I don't know.

Molly:

So Laurie, one thing that puzzles me about this project is like-

Matthew:

Here's where the hard hitting journalism comes in.

Molly:

How did you get it up to do these recipes that you weren't very excited about? Talking about marriage advice, no. But really even sometimes if I'm making something for my child or my spouse, something that I'm not super excited to make but that is fine and that I know they're going to like, I just find it difficult to get going and you made 20 recipes and surely you were less than excited going into a lot of them.

Laurie:

I always hated talking about measurable goals at work. It's been a part of my life for a long time but actually having this as a specific measurable goal made it very doable because I just knew I was going to make them all. And there was I think one day when I got really annoyed and was not happy with some of the cookies I was making and I was like, "I just want to make something that I know how to make it and I know it's going to work." And so I made a bit the primary coconut cookies because I've made them so many times and it was really nice to make something familiar again. Because yeah, I just realized I did not love making new recipes that I didn't know if they would be good or not but it was fun. Since it was our project, then it was fun.

Molly:

Yeah. And I think also the fact that you wound up having some of the recipes probably made it also more doable.

Laurie:

Yeah. You hate to feel you might throw away ingredients and stuff.

Molly:

Especially when you're dealing with like butter and chocolate and nuts, it's expensive stuff.

Laurie:

Yeah.

Molly:

Okay. All right.

Matthew:

All right. The last one. We mentioned the cranberry coconut chews, is that what they're called?

Laurie:

Yes.

Matthew:

We did talk about those last time. Those were for 19 years, the only recipe from the Sunset cookie roundup that we ever made because they were the cookie of the year and they were almost everyone's favorite. They were certainly my favorite of the non chocolate cookies. They really are a great cookie but they're not the last cookie we're talking about today. That would be white chocolate raspberry slices. Seeing this cookie being made, when they talk about you don't want to see the sausage being made. That's what this was like. It was strange.

Laurie:

It's a cookie that you make in strips and then you cut the strips into little chunks. And it was not hard to make but I didn't feel like it really paid off. These were okay but it may be actually start going to look for other similar recipes that I thought were better than I'd made before. And it did not make me a fan of white chocolate because it just didn't seem to add much.

Molly:

Can you describe what these looked like?

Laurie:

It's very hard to describe.

Matthew:

It is very hard to describe.

Laurie:

So it's basically just like a little bite sized cookie, a butter, vanilla cookie with a little bit of jam if you're lucky. Some of them didn't have that.

Matthew:

If you behave.

Laurie:

The design was not really well thought out like some cookies had the weight. You have a long strip of dough and you put indentations in them and fill the indentations with jam but not jam for every cookie. The whole thing was strange. So it's just a little bite-size cookie with a little jam on it and a little white chocolate drizzled on it.

Molly:

Okay. Okay. Okay.

Matthew:

We do have a bunch of white chocolate left now so I might try doing that caramelized white chocolate that we were talking about-

Laurie:

I forgot about that. Right.

Matthew:

... on the white chocolate episode, whenever that was.

Molly:

So Laurie, which one of these or not one of them, hopefully more than one do you think will go into the rotation? Obviously there's the cranberry coconut ones.

Laurie:

Yes. That's been in the rotation for a long time. So on the last episode, I think Matthew said about the nutmeg sugar cookies, something like, I don't even remember those. I don't know what they are. So that one, I really liked the lot. My sister liked it. And that was the one out just because of some timing I happened to send some of those to a friend of mine and she said they were one of the best cookies she's ever had. So I'm definitely planning to make nutmeg sugar cookies again and maybe Matthew won't eat them all. So that's fine.

Molly:

My God, I would love to have some.

Laurie:

Okay. We'll try and make that happen.

Molly:

They sound really good.

Laurie:

And then December, and I both really liked the Napoleon's hats.

Matthew:

Right. [crosstalk 00:27:50].

Laurie:

Which had the almond filling and they were very fun to make. They are much easier and more fun than like a lot of times I avoid a filled cookie because I think it's too complicated but it actually was pretty fun to make. So that one December is mentioned and I really liked the lot that we will definitely make again.

Molly:

I loved the sound of the Napoleon's hats and the fact that they... Because it's just almond paste in the middle of the hat, right?

Laurie:

It's actually, it's almond paste blended with some egg white.

Molly:

So it makes it maybe a little fluffier.

Laurie:

And so it's chewy but a little lighter also.

Molly:

Okay. Because whenever Matthew and I taped that episode, well, about a week after that, I made these holiday cookies that I had made once before, I made them again. They're from Luisa Weiss's book, Classic German Baking and they're called [Bibolla 00:28:42]. It's a honey gingerbread dough. So you rolled that out, you portion it into eight pieces and you roll them out thinly. And then you put a log of almond paste down the center and roll up the dough around the almond paste. So you've got this thing, it looks like a weird little hot dog order but then you cut across it. You cut it into like rhombuses [crosstalk 00:29:08].

Molly:

And I love them. I love them. It's a very mild gingerbread flavor. And then this almond paste that's really chewy. Anyway, it made me think of the Napoleon's hats and want to try the Napoleon's hats all the more because they echo each other.

Laurie:

So is it Bibolla?

Molly:

Yes. Something like that.

Laurie:

Is that right?

Molly:

Yeah

Laurie:

It really is [crosstalk 00:29:29].

Matthew:

I think you said Bibolla like what your Jewish grandmother calls you?

Molly:

No. No. It was Bibolla in-

Matthew:

In German?

Laurie:

Okay. Bibolla.

Molly:

Yes.

Laurie:

Okay. So Molly, I actually I watched the video that you and Luisa did where you made those cookies.

Molly:

You did?

Laurie:

Yeah. It was so fun because it was just like a fun Christmas cookie watching video. And so maybe we can put a link to that in the show notes.

Molly:

Yeah. Let's do.

Matthew:

Absolutely.

Laurie:

Because they look really good. But it was for a Book Larder event so it's on Book Larder's YouTube. And it was very fun. And I really liked it because sometimes it's hard to picture what a cookie looks like, like you said.

Matthew:

I was like mm-hmm-ing (affirmative) along like, yeah, I know what a rhombus that looks like a hot dog or a dirt is.

Laurie:

But the thing that will make sense to you is I remember it now from the video, Matthew, is that Molly said they look like combos.

Matthew:

Yes. Okay. Yes. Now I know exactly what you mean. But maybe if combos were cut on a diagonal.

Laurie:

I think they're cut across.

Matthew:

Cut across. Okay.

Laurie:

They look like combos.

Matthew:

All right.

Molly:

Well, the one thing that you should know about Bibolla which I didn't know the first year I made them and so I was unsure of what I thought about them, is that, so apparently a lot of German Christmas cookies are on the drier side because they are meant to be served with tea and to be dunked into tea.

Matthew:

Okay. I was going to ask if you meant to be dunked.

Molly:

So it has to do with the way that the dough is made, especially the doughs I think that involved honey tend to be a little drier and chewier. So anyway, these cookies, they're like dry and chewy. And I know that that sounds unappealing but dunking them in black tea. My God. They're so good.

Matthew:

Yeah. I mean, I imagine you could dunk them in tea, coffee, glühwein, glögg, [inaudible 00:31:18].

Molly:

All the things you like dunking in.

Matthew:

Yes. All my favorite dunkables. Laurie, one more question before we let you go, what is your next project? And what could I do to induce you to have it be something like a cookbook called cookies with way too much chocolate?

Laurie:

Usually sometime like around the holidays, I usually make what is probably our family's favorite cookie, which is chocolate malt sandwich cookies. It's a Martha Stewart recipe. I'm sure it's been mentioned on the show before. And so that is definitely on deck and it's pretty fun to make because well, to try new recipes is good. It's also nice to make something that I know will make my family very happy. Also what I've been looking forward to, even though cookies are my favorite thing to make, we recently got a new cookbook also from Book Larder called Snacking Cakes. Yeah.

Laurie:

So Snacking Cakes looks great and I've been waiting to be done with cookies so I can try some of the recipes from this because especially it looks really good for recipes that we probably have the ingredients to make, which are really fun. So I'm looking forward to trying that.

Matthew:

And I am looking forward to snacking on those cakes.

Molly:

I remember once on the blog, I wrote a post about the importance of everyday cakes, just like a cake to have around on the counter. So God, yeah, I need to get this book, Snacking Cakes. That'll be my next Book Larder purchase.

Laurie:

Everything looks really good.

Matthew:

All right. Wife for the show, Laurie, thanks so much for being on Spilled Milk.

Laurie:

Do I need a closing one.

Molly:

Yes. Thank you, thank you, Laurie.

Matthew:

Yeah. What's your closing junk? Every guest is expected to prepare one.

Molly:

Thank you, Laurie. We hope it wasn't too painful and that your marriage survived.

Laurie:

Survived both the 20 cookies and talking about them on this episode.

Matthew:

Yeah. I mean, the thing I realized about cookies in case this isn't obvious is there are two cookies that I really love, brownies and chocolate chip cookies and anything that departs very far from those I'm like [inaudible 00:33:32]. I'm so boring.

Molly:

No. I feel the same way though. I think that brownies and chocolate chip cookies done well, I really don't need to veer very far from that ever.

Matthew:

Okay. But that's not a criticism of a 20 cookie project at the same time.

Molly:

No. No. No. I mean, I wish that my spouse had undertaken a 20 cookie project.

Matthew:

[crosstalk 00:33:53].

Molly:

I mean, I hope they can't hear me saying this but they've undertaken other projects that have pleased me.

Matthew:

That's good.

Molly:

Yes.

Matthew:

You want to do some listener mail?

Molly:

Let's do some listener mail.

Matthew:

All right. What episode were we talking about pastry coffins on? Pie, Apple pie.

Molly:

The apple pie episode. Yeah

Matthew:

Right. So during that episode we said what is this thing about pastry coffins and were people really baking pastries in the middle ages and then throwing away the dough and maybe listener and food historian, Ken Albala would know something about this. Well, after the episode aired, I immediately got a message from Ken Albala in which he pasted in part of an article that he had written about references to pastry coffins in Shakespeare. And I'm going to just go ahead and read a little of this.

Molly:

Ken Albala, we love you.

Matthew:

So this is listener Ken writing that. Although Shakespeare is not known for being gastronomically minded, many of his references do shed light on culinary practices of the Renaissance. Among the best known is the passage in Hamlet, where the Prince mentions they quote, the funeral baked meats did coldly furnish forth the marriage tables.

Molly:

It seems like coldly furnished forth the marriage tables seems like something that you need The Gottman's to help you with. Right?

Matthew:

It does a call to mind like two people sitting at opposite ends of a table that's 27 feet long, right.

Molly:

Yeah. Coldly.

Matthew:

Coldly. I guess nowadays they would just each be looking at their phones but back in the old days they would just be like staring.

Molly:

Well, they would have been looking at the funeral baked meats.

Matthew:

Right. So Ken says, "But the phrase refers obliquely albeit gruesomely to the pastry shells of the baked meats or pies also known as coffins. The pastry was sometimes a vehicle for storage of the contents and wasn't eaten being made of course, but sturdy freestanding rye flour. The contents would include gelatinous, broth or fat to keep the contents hermetically sealed. The coffin is thus meant to protect and preserve the contents from corruption."

Molly:

I feel like there's so many metaphors in this.

Matthew:

I know. And later in the article, which I will ask Ken if there's a place we can link to it. He talks that there's a really disgusting stuff in Titus Andronicus about grinding up children and putting them into a pastry coffin. It's for sure Shakespeare's grossest play I think.

Molly:

Do you think that maybe the capital wouldn't have been stormed if it had been sealed in a pastry coffin?

Matthew:

That is an interesting idea. But can walls really solve our problems? In this case maybe yes.

Molly:

Maybe. Maybe so. Because the coffin is thus meant to protect and preserve the contents from corruption.

Matthew:

Exactly. Unfortunately there's also a lot of corruption inside the crust in that case.

Molly:

That's true. That's true.

Matthew:

All right. [crosstalk 00:36:54] humor. I like it.

Molly:

Here we go. All right. Now let's wow.

Matthew:

Now let's wow. That's a great, I... wait a minute. Wait. Hold it right there because now let's wow is a great title for a segment. I don't know what the segment would be about but come on. Right?

Molly:

I feel like I'm stroking out over here.

Matthew:

And now let's wow.

Molly:

No. We were going to move into our other segments from [crosstalk 00:37:25].

Matthew:

Okay. This is even more exciting than now let's wow. It's the quilting segment. What's new in the world of quilting?

Molly:

Well, I think I told you last week that I had learned how to hand quilt, hand stitch, hand quilts, my quilt. And I'm still working on that. But I'm making really good progress. I showed June the progress I had made earlier this week and she looked at it and was like... "Well, I'm doing it..."

Matthew:

It sounds like she was really impressed based on that.

Molly:

I'm doing it in this pattern that's my own choosing but it's irregular, intentionally irregular.

Matthew:

Yes. I think you talked about this.

Molly:

Anyway, she was like, "Why are you only stitching around some of the shapes?" And I was like, "My God." Children such binary thinkers. Anyway, so yeah, that's my quilting update. It marches on. We've now finished watching the crown which was a really good show to quilt along to.

Matthew:

I can imagine that.

Molly:

And so now I need to find a new show to quilt.

Matthew:

You should quilt to Bridgerton. If you haven't watched any Bridgerton.

Molly:

You know what? We watched the trailer for Bridgerton and I got to say both Ash and I were like, "I don't think this is our humor."

Matthew:

Okay. That's fair.

Molly:

I think we might go back and do Broadchurch because we're both on a real Olivia Colman kick at the moment.

Matthew:

Okay. That sounds good. I know who Olivia Colman is and she's great but I don't know what Broadchurch is. Is it like an investigative type of thing?

Molly:

Yeah. I think it's a crime thing.

Matthew:

Okay. It's a crime thing.

Molly:

Somebody disappears or something. Anyway. Whatever.

Matthew:

All right. Great, great. That was the trailer for Broadchurch right there. It's like a crime thing maybe.

Molly:

You can quilt to it.

Matthew:

You can quilt to it. Anything new in the world of animal crossing.

Molly:

No. Nothing new in the world of animal crossing.

Matthew:

Okay. Well, have I got a cute animal you need to know?

Molly:

I have something for the cute animals segment.

Matthew:

Yes. And so do you want to go first?

Molly:

So June introduced me to a show on Netflix called Izzy's Koala World.

Matthew:

That sounds good.

Molly:

There is a young girl named Izzy. She seems to be maybe 11 or 12. And her mother is a wildlife veterinarian and they live on an Island in Australia. And there are a lot of koalas on the Island and they basically take in koalas that are injured or have been abandoned in some way and rehab them and rerelease them into the wild. And this is a show made for, I think young people and it is delightful. It's informative and the koalas are so cute. It almost moved Ash to tears just seeing how cute they are.

Matthew:

Are they the ones who eat eucalyptus?

Molly:

Yes. So big recommendation for Izzy's Koala World. I've only watched two episodes, but yeah, it's really sweet. And we enjoyed watching it as a family.

Matthew:

How many episodes are there?

Molly:

I think only six or eight.

Matthew:

Is it possible it has a cliffhanger ending?

Molly:

Hopefully it's not actual koalas on a cliff, although they'd probably be fine. What am I thinking?

Matthew:

Yeah. I think they're probably good at scrabbling up the trees and stuff. Okay. Well, my cute animal this week is the baby pine marten. And a pine marten is it's like a weasel or a badger. It's in that family, the Mustelidae family. We talked about stoats. I think stoats was what started this whole cute animal segment. And they're not quite as long and hot dog like as stoats but they're like a little furry Brown thing that scrambles around on trees.

Molly:

I got to look up a stoat again, hang on.

Matthew:

And they're found...

Molly:

My God, they're so cute.

Matthew:

You got to look up a stoat again.

Molly:

God. They're like weasel.

Matthew:

Stoats are really...

Molly:

They're like weasels colored like foxes.

Matthew:

Yeah. They were like fox weasels. We're not talking about stoats today. We're talking about baby pine martens, which we're going to post a link to a video. And in this one, they just climb around on trees and sometimes they chase squirrels and I think they're carnivorous. So they also do a lot of like cute murders. But it's the animal kingdom.

Molly:

My God. They're really cute.

Matthew:

Yeah. Right?

Molly:

They're really cute. They scratch like the stoat itch, the fox itch and the koala itch a little bit.

Matthew:

And they'll literally scratch you.

Molly:

Yeah. I mean, look at their paws. It looks like they have dog paws but with longer... They look more articulated.

Matthew:

Yeah. And they're found all across like Scotland and most of the European continent.

Molly:

God, how big is as an adult pint marten?

Matthew:

I don't know. I only deal in baby animals I think. No. I guess we talked about adult, the villa monkeys pygmy marmosets.

Molly:

Well, here there's a video, a suggested video on my YouTube that says the pine marten is nature's most adorable assassin.

Matthew:

There we go. Yes. I agree with that assessment.

Molly:

I aspire to be one of nature's most adorable assassins. How am I doing?

Matthew:

I mean, how are you doing in like the adorability axis or the assassin part? Because like I don't-

Molly:

No different.

Matthew:

... I don't know if I'm really qualified to comment on the second one maybe we should like go off air. Am I qualified to comment on the first one? I feel like you've been even set up some trap for me or possibly yourself.

Molly:

No. No. It's fine. It's fine.

Matthew:

You're absolutely adorable and an incredible marks person.

Molly:

Thank you. Thank you. We did as one of our little COVID family projects make a bow and-

Matthew:

Right. You did.

Molly:

... we practiced sniping or snippering.

Matthew:

Right. Then the bow and arrow was not very good, right?

Molly:

Yeah.

Matthew:

Okay.

Molly:

It wasn't very good. Anyway. Okay. Well this has been another really informative episode of Spilled Milk.

Matthew:

It has.

Molly:

You can find that whole Sunset Cookies feature in the show notes as well as a video of the baby pine marten, which is a must-see.

Matthew:

I know we've gotten some cute animals suggestions. If you have made all 20 Sunset Cookies and you want to rank them, or if you haven't and want to rank them just based on the names and our descriptions, you can let us know on Reddit, that's reddit.com/r/everythingspilledmilk where people get together and talk about the show. Our producer is Abby Cerquitella. Thanks again to wife for the show, Laurie, for being our guest today. Anything else that you want to add before we say... What was the new segment name we came up with?

Molly:

Now but wow.

Matthew:

Now the wow.

Molly:

It's like current events but they're really exciting.

Matthew:

Really just fun, uplifting. I guess that's what that very short-lived John Krasinski YouTube show was.

Molly:

Is that gone? I never watched it but I heard about it.

Matthew:

I think yeah. I think it lasted four episodes or something.

Molly:

Was it called now but wow?

Matthew:

No, it was called like some good news maybe. I think maybe he ran out of good news after three episodes.

Molly:

Maybe we could ask our listeners to submit news items, not too short-lived but submit news positive news to now but wow.

Matthew:

Okay. I thought it was now the wow. Or was it now but wow? We might have to go back and listen to the tape. But when you say not short-lived you mean news that will still be news five weeks later when it actually appears on the episode?

Molly:

That's exactly right. Yes.

Matthew:

So in other words, the opposite of news.

Molly:

Right. Or maybe it's not even news we're looking for. Maybe it's just exciting stuff. I don't know, did you...

Matthew:

On the Jordan, Jesse, Go! which I've listened to for years, they have a segment called... I've listened to like 1,000 of that show, I cannot remember what the segment is called. It's where people call... Momentous occasions. It's where people call in with momentous occasions like something exciting happened to them or they saw something exciting happen.

Molly:

They should call that segment now but wow. I mean, please.

Matthew:

Because I don't want to just steal their segment and give it a better name because now but wow... I get excited about now but wow or now the wow. I think I like now the wow.

Molly:

We'll find out when we listen to the tape again.

Matthew:

We'll find out when we listen to a future episode and see what we say.

Molly:

Okay. Okay. So I want some listener content for this.

Matthew:

Okay. So yeah, if you want to ask us a question for listener mail, which I forgot to call Spilled Mail or if you want to send us in stuff saying something we should know for now the wow or now but wow, contact at spilled.podcast.com. I don't think we've really made clear what content we're looking for.

Molly:

Maybe it's going to just develop organically as people send us stuff that's wow worthy. But not wow in the world. I mean, that's a different podcast.

Matthew:

That's right. I keep thinking of that too. Remember the bonus episode where you describe New Yorker cartoons, maybe someone will send us in a description of a funny New Yorker cartoon that they saw. And then you will describe their description.

Molly:

So I put my New Yorker subscription on hold a number of months ago, maybe a year or two ago, actually, because I found that I was reading a lot more books and I just wasn't having time.

Matthew:

I hope my in-laws didn't put their Sunset subscription on hold.

Molly:

So I'm very behind on New Yorker cartoons and good Shouts and Murmurs. So, I mean, this could be part of now the wow. What's going to wow us. Send us stuff that's wowy.

Matthew:

Yeah. Send Molly an old issue of the New Yorker and she will be wowed.

Molly:

No. But if there's a really good cartoon that I should know about or just so you know my taste in Shouts and Murmurs, one of my favorites is the one from a couple of years ago where it's Letters from a Gold Rush Mother.

Matthew:

Yeah. I knew it when you were going to say that was very good.

Molly:

Yeah. So that is really my Shouts and murmurs humor. So listeners now the wow, now but wow.

Matthew:

Yeah. All right. Until next time I'm Bob.

Molly:

I'm Sue.

Matthew:

Now this is everyone's favorite part of the podcast, the part before the guest comes on, when you know the guest is says just sitting there waiting to jump in.