Embedded Files
Molly:
I'm Molly.
Matthew:
I'm Matthew.
Molly:
This is Spilled Milk, the show where we cook something, delicious, eat it all and you can't have any.
Matthew:
Wow, we're diving right in. Usually, we hop on, we shoot the chef for a little while, we catch up, we're friends, but today, no, it's all business.
Molly:
Last night, we exercised all our friendship by texting back and forth about persimmons.
Matthew:
That's true, we exercised. Wait, is that E-X-O-R or E-X-E-R, exercised?
Molly:
Oh, without O.
Matthew:
Okay, so we exercised our friendship until there's no friendship left within us. It's been banished back to the hell dimension for which it came.
Molly:
Anyway, but no, how are you?
Matthew:
I'm good.
Molly:
It's Christmas Eve when this airs Matthew. One thing I love about podcasting is that it allows us to time travel.
Matthew:
Yeah. I'm on board with this bit wherever it's going.
Molly:
We are recording. We've recorded this in mid December, but when our listeners listen to it, it's going to be Christmas Eve at the very early.
Matthew:
Oh, that's true.
Molly:
Yeah. Matthew, what are you doing today, Christmas Eve?
Matthew:
I have a mug of Glogg or mulled wine or Hot toddy.
Molly:
Drink ale.
Matthew:
Oh, I drink ale.
Molly:
Isn't that the old thing, Wassail, drink ale.
Matthew:
Oh, Wassail.
Molly:
Yeah.
Matthew:
Yes, yeah, I'm all Wassailing. I'm sitting under the tree. I'm wrapped up in a festive paper and I've got a bow somewhere. How about you? I'm all alone.
Molly:
You're all alone. Merry Christmas. Well, our tree by this point is kind of crispy, even though I've been keeping it well watered, but it still smells really nice. I'm feeling festive today. My whole family is tired of me listening to the John Fahey Christmas albums and we're going to have dinner tonight.
Matthew:
That sounds great. What are you having for Christmas Eve dinner? We're going to be having tamales?
Molly:
Well, so what I really like is, it used to be that when I was a kid. Whenever we were visiting my mother's twin sister for the Christmas holidays, we would have Dungeness crab for Christmas Eve dinner.
Matthew:
Dungeness crab comes up on the show a lot.
Molly:
It does. As a kid growing up in Oklahoma, I really didn't know anything about Dungeness crab, except that my family tended to eat it when we were in the Bay area, which is where my aunt lived, at Christmas time. Of course, now that I live in Seattle, I understand that it's much more a Pacific Northwest thing, but yeah, I really like having Dungeness crab on Christmas Eve also because you don't have to cook anything.
Matthew:
Oh yeah, I know it sounds very festive.
Molly:
Tonight actually, I know this is very confusing, but I'm staying in Christmas Eve here, Matthew.
Matthew:
Right and I understand.
Molly:
Tonight. I believe that my ex-husband is actually cooking and we're all doing dinner together.
Matthew:
Oh, that's nice.
Molly:
Yeah. It should be great.
Matthew:
I hope you have a lovely time and then climbing your stocking and put on your kerchief and wait for someone to come down the chimney, preferably Santa.
Molly:
Okay. Are you going to be stuffing any stockings tonight metaphorically speaking?
Matthew:
You better be re-stuffing stockings tonight. That's my main responsibility when it comes to the Christmas season.
Molly:
Do you leave out any cookies for Jolly St. Nick?
Matthew:
It's a good idea. I always say, there's a real Pascal's wager with Santa, better safe than sorry. Because if Santa is real and you don't leave cookies, you are fucked.
Molly:
Yeah. It's true. You don't even get coal. You just get nothing.
Matthew:
Right. I think that's what that movie Bad Santa is about.
Molly:
It is.
Matthew:
Okay.
Molly:
Yeah. I think we'll be leaving out cookies this year. Although, as I mentioned on holiday cookies too, I haven't really done Christmas baking, so I don't know which cookies we want. Maybe some Double Stuf Oreos.
Matthew:
Oh, that sounds great. Yeah, Santa loves that. Santa's motto is, there's no such thing as too much stuff and that applies to toys and cream filling.
Molly:
Awesome. Okay. Well, so it is fitting today on Christmas Eve, do you see how thoroughly I'm doing this?
Matthew:
Yeah.
Molly:
It is fitting that today on Christmas Eve, we are talking about cider, mark you.
Matthew:
Oh, great. It's a good time to announce the topic, five minutes into the episode. I forgot we hadn't done that yet.
Molly:
Today, we're talking about cider.
Matthew:
Before we talk about cider, there's a couple other things we need to talk about.
Molly:
Okay. Oh God. Okay. Okay. Sorry for last night.
Matthew:
First of all, it is not too late to sign up for your writing workshop. Is that correct?
Molly:
Are you reminding me?
Matthew:
I'm reminding you and the people, but I'd like you to give the details because I don't know them.
Molly:
Sure. I started in 2020 doing a lot of teaching online. I used to pretty much only teach writing in person and now I only teach it online and I love it. In 2021, I have decided to start offering more workshops that are sort of in bite size amounts rather than a three-week long workshop or something. My first one is going to be January 24th. It's called From Memory To Story. It is about the particular process that I use to access memories and write vividly from within memories. Yeah, you can sign up for it on my website, which is mollywizenberg.com. You'll see, there's a tab for teaching. It's going to be a webinar on Zoom. We're going to do some writing during the webinar, two hours on January 24th. Yeah, go to mollywizenberg.com, check it out.
Matthew:
People get to go inside your mind palace. Wouldn't you say?
Molly:
Well, again-
Matthew:
And their own mind palaces, but first, they get to see what's in yours and that helps people unlock their own mind palace.
Molly:
Well, this is what they're saying, "I'll show you yours."
Matthew:
This why you hired me to copy for your class.
Molly:
This is where the saying, "I'll show you yours, if you show me mine."
Matthew:
That is how they say it guys. Yes, it's, "I'll show you yours, if show me mine."
Molly:
Well, I meant, or show me.
Matthew:
No, that's where you went. It's now on tape for posterity.
Molly:
Oh, I'm really coherent and you definitely want to take a writing workshop from me, so go to mollywizenberg.com.
Matthew:
No, this is why you've been so successful in love because you have the best pickup lines. What do you say, "come back to my place, I'll show you yours and... Wait a minute. I might have to draw a diagram."
Molly:
Oh, my spouses really they love my sexy word play.
Matthew:
I'll show you yours, but you may need to contort your head around.
Molly:
You may need to get a mirror.
Matthew:
Yeah, exactly.
Molly:
Yeah.
Matthew:
Oh, okay. Sign up at mollywiZenberg.com. Sign up for Molly's workshop. It's very reasonably priced. It's going to be amazing. I also have some important news.
Molly:
What's that?
Matthew:
As you know, a couple months ago, we did a Negroni episode. Right? You mentioned that your mother's winter cocktail, your mother, Tony, who we started calling Tony Negroni because her winter drink of choice is a Negroni. I asked you, "What is your mother's summer drink of choice?" You said, "Oh, I'm having dinner with her tonight or tomorrow. I'll ask her," but you did not.
Molly:
I did not.
Matthew:
Sometimes all your life, you have to take matters into your own hands. You have to create your own pub reality.
Molly:
Did you text my mother?
Matthew:
Yeah, I texted your mom.
Molly:
You did?
Matthew:
Yes.
Molly:
This is weird.
Matthew:
I texted your mom and I said, "What is your summer cocktail?" I gave the backstory.
Molly:
Okay, when did you do this?
Matthew:
Like two days ago. Then I had to sit on it for two days and hope that she didn't tell you and spoil the bit and also not tell you myself because I was championed at this bit.
Molly:
Wow, yeah. I mean, I spent Saturday afternoon with her, had dinner with her Saturday night, today's Monday morning.
Matthew:
Oh terrific.
Molly:
She didn't say a word.
Matthew:
Oh, Tony Negroni, thank you for not spilling the beans. Now, I can answer the question. I mean, the entire world has been on the edge of their seats ever since we did that episode wondering what Tony Negroni's summer drink of choice is. Are you ready for the answer?
Molly:
Yeah.
Matthew:
Crackling cold soft Blanc or Rosie and I love the phrase crackling cold.
Molly:
Did she say that? God, that doesn't sound like her.
Matthew:
Yes, I heard.
Molly:
Did you text the wrong person?
Matthew:
That's what she said. Actually, she said she had soft Blanc, crackling cold. Oh, it is possible I texted a different person with the same name. I got some contacts reversed.
Molly:
No, this fits. This fits.
Matthew:
It's possible that I texted Carrie from Sex and the City.
Molly:
She does love Sauvignon Blanc and she does love Rosie. I'm loving her use of adjectives. She's taken a workshop with me on the SOP.
Matthew:
That's right. She made the memory of last summer's very cold wine into a... she unlocked the memory palace walace.
Molly:
She showed me hers.
Matthew:
That's right. That's right. She showed you her memory and you turned it into a story.
Molly:
Oh my God, this is exhausting. By the way, Matthew, I just looked up the exact webpage people should go to. It's mollywizenberg.com/upcoming. Okay.
Matthew:
If they go to mollywizenberg.com, that's nothing.
Molly:
Yeah, they'll find it. Anyway, thanks Matthew for supporting my work. That means a lot.
Matthew:
Even by texting your mom or just-
Molly:
By talking it up here.
Matthew:
Right, right, right. Okay.
Molly:
I mean, thank you also, I think, for texting my mom.
Matthew:
You're welcome.
Molly:
It's really cute. I'm sure it made her happy.
Matthew:
I think so. We don't know yet what her spring and autumn drinks of choice are, so stay tuned for that, I guess.
Molly:
Okay. Okay, great.
Matthew:
Let's talk about one of my winter drinks of choice, cider.
Molly:
Oh, great. Wow, nice segue there. Okay, Matthew take me down your memory lane.
Matthew:
Okay. Memory lane. Well, I mean, do we have to distinguish between cider and apple juice because we're going to be talking about both alcoholic and non-alcoholic cider?
Molly:
Hmm, I think we can not talk about commercial apple juice.
Matthew:
Okay. I definitely remember not very specifically where this would have happened, but that, at some points, when I was a kid, we would have apple cider and it was something special. It would come in like a milk jug kind of. Rather than a clear plastic bottle, it would be more like a thin plastic milk jug. It would be kind of dark and unfiltered and cloudy. This was a special apple juice.
Molly:
Yes. Yes.
Matthew:
I don't know where? Maybe at a holiday party or something.
Molly:
Hmm. Yeah.
Matthew:
That's really pretty much what I remember.
Molly:
I don't remember much about cider from being a kid. Yeah. It was not a big thing in the culture of Oklahoma, let's put it that way. It wasn't a big thing for either of my parents, but then I married for a decade into a family of people who were really into cider. Brandon's family, they're all on the East Coast and Brandon's grandfather, I think, went to school in Vermont.
Matthew:
With Johnny Appleseed.
Molly:
With Johnny Appleseed. There's a school up there that has a whole big cider festival. Anyway, Brandon-
Matthew:
Oh, that sounds great.
Molly:
Right. Brandon grew up, well, with cider being a real fall tradition and cider donuts. It was like a special thing that he would look forward to. Brandon is still really into cider and actually in the past couple of years, well, first he rented a cider press. You can rent small hand crank cider presses. Now, I think he actually wound up buying one. It's not huge. You've seen it, right?
Matthew:
Yeah. I know. I always say, "Why buy the press when you can get the cider for free?" But apparently that doesn't apply here.
Molly:
No. Brandon loves to make cider and so, in the fall, he often has a little cider party where he has people over onto his front porch and front yard and everybody takes turns cranking the old cider press.
Matthew:
I have been to this party and it was really fun. Not this year, obviously. It was really fun and the cranking the cider press was a lot more work than I expected.
Molly:
It's lot of work. There's a lot of mess, right, because there's all the detritus that comes out of the cider press. Anyway, it's really cool. He works with local farms to get some big cases of apples, all different types and so the cider is delicious.
Matthew:
It's really good.
Molly:
It's so good, really tangy. Sometimes, did you ever have any kind of pink cider he made from pink fleshed apples?
Matthew:
Uh-huh(affirmative).
Molly:
Anyway, so that is my memory lane, which runs right up onto my current lane. What's the present tense of memory lane?
Matthew:
That's a good question. I think it's the moment because you either live your life on memory lane or you live in the moment.
Molly:
Yes, yes.
Matthew:
The moment drive. When I was a kid, there was a time when I was obsessed with collecting a list of all of the possible types of streets that could be appended to your street name, like circle or a crescent, third lane or alley.
Molly:
What about course?
Matthew:
Course, that's a good one. There are so many. I remember at one point I realized, Oh wait, I thought this was going to be a collection of six or seven things, but they're a hundred.
Molly:
Wait, did you really keep this list or you're just exaggerating it?
Matthew:
I think I really kept a list. Does it surprise you that I'm the kind of kid who would have kept a list of street designations?
Molly:
No, it doesn't surprise me, but you are you're full of contradictions.
Matthew:
What?
Molly:
You both have a lot of really nerdy traits and a lot of surprising traits.
Matthew:
Also, I'm really wrapped.
Molly:
You're super wrapped.
Matthew:
Extremely strong.
Molly:
You definitely didn't get injured during the pandemic doing yoga in your living room.
Matthew:
That's right. That has been erased from memory lane.
Molly:
Anyway-
Matthew:
Sorry, what's the contradiction?
Molly:
Oh, but I only learned on our early 2020 episode, when we went back to your college that you'd wanted to be a rock star, basically.
Matthew:
That's true. I did want to be a rock star.
Molly:
This was your life's dream and you actually really kind of pursued it.
Matthew:
Not with enough fervor to make even a fraction of it happen, but yeah.
Molly:
Yeah. Anyway, okay. Can I talk about soft cider or non-alcoholic cider?
Matthew:
Please do.
Molly:
This distinction is mostly used in Canada and the US. The name soft cider, sweet cider or cider being used to refer to just fresh unfiltered, unsweetened apple juice space.
Matthew:
Right.
Molly:
In other parts of the world, most of the time, the term cider just refers to the hard stuff. Soft cider, as you mentioned on memory lane, is usually opaque kind of cloudy from all the apple particles that are in suspension.
Matthew:
Yeah, which was really does make it seem special. Doesn't it?
Molly:
It really makes it special. It has such a different body really from commercial sort of bright yellow, straw-colored apple juice. Anyway, and it's usually tangier than commercial apple juice. I don't know if that has to do with the fact that it's usually raw and so the flavor is maybe more vibrant or if it has to do with the fact that fresh cider is often made with a blend of apples.
Matthew:
I think it's the apple varieties that it's coming from.
Molly:
Okay. Okay. This was an interesting moment, Matthew, in my research. Wikipedia says that cider, again, I'm talking about the non-alcoholic version, is liquid extracted from an apple, but then it's boiled to a certain concentration.
Matthew:
That doesn't seem right.
Molly:
That doesn't seem right to me. Anyway, so it is my understanding that most of the time when we talk about seasonal cider, we're talking about a raw product and only pasteurized ciders that you might find in the grocery store, for instance, are actually boiled, I think.
Matthew:
Well, they're probably not even boiled. They're probably heated to pasteurization temperatures.
Molly:
Which is worth.
Matthew:
I mean, pasteurization is a low temperatures sterilizing technique.
Molly:
Using low temp. I don't think I ever knew that.
Matthew:
Yeah. Because a lot of things, you can boil something to kill all the bacteria, but that's going to usually change the flavor and/or texture in ways that are undesirable. Pasteurization is usually taking something up to 158 degrees for a certain amount of time so that you don't affect the nature of the product as much as if you boiled it.
Molly:
This makes sense. Okay. Wow. That's science lesson. Thanks Matthew.
Matthew:
Sure thing. I mean, but then there's also high temperature, short time heat treating, which is probably still technically pasteurization. I don't know.
Molly:
Is that like UHT treatment?
Matthew:
Yeah.
Molly:
Okay. Anyway, apples tend to grow starting in August or so and going through the fall, so fresh cider tends to be a seasonal thing that's only in the fall, of course. It's typically served, at least by some people, at a lot of the fall and winter holidays. Who knows? Maybe you and your family, you listener, are going to have some mold cider today.
Matthew:
Maybe you're going to mull that cider.
Molly:
Mull it over.
Matthew:
We did a mulled wine episode, didn't we?
Molly:
We did. We did. Yeah. I-
Matthew:
What was that exactly?
Molly:
Oh, well, so Matthew, do you remember how much we enjoyed it?
Matthew:
I do, but also, it's like warm red wine with spices. Is that it?
Molly:
Yes, but I think a lot of mold cider is really, people often use like a really big wine. People often use kind of an inexpensive red table wine.
Matthew:
For mold wine.
Molly:
For mold wine. It tends to be a little higher in alcohol, sort of a bigger body that when you and I recorded that episode, I did some research and wound up making a cider recipe that used a Beaujolais.
Matthew:
That was still wine, right?
Molly:
It was still wine. Yep, but it did have some apple cider in it and it was so good. It was so good. Oh my God. It was so good. I made it again last winter. I think we maybe recorded that episode two years ago and I made it again last winter and every bit it is good. Sadly, I haven't made it this winter because I've started having, I don't know if I even believe in the science of this or not, but every time I drink red wine, even just a glass, I wake up the next morning with a headache. This is just started in the last couple of months and it's very frustrating to me.
Matthew:
That does sound frustrating.
Molly:
I don't like it. Anyway, all right. Matthew-
Matthew:
Have you experimented whether mulling prevents the headache?
Molly:
I haven't. I'm not sure that I want to. I just don't know if I want to. It's a really persistent headache. It's not terrible. It lingers all day. Listeners, I've done some research into what this could be. I think there are a couple of different explanations, but some of them I think are kind of bogus.
Matthew:
You're requesting medical opinions from our listeners.
Molly:
I'm not requesting medical opinions from our listeners.
Matthew:
Okay, great. Why don't you answer that on the Reddit, reddit.com/r/everythingspilledmilk.
Molly:
To be clear, most of the time, the red wines that I buy are either French or Italian and I tend to like lighter grapes. I don't know if that helps give you more information.
Matthew:
That's interesting. Okay.
Molly:
Okay. Anyway, Matthew, hold on. We're slowly building up to hard cider. Okay.
Matthew:
Yes. Yes. I'm excited.
Molly:
Okay. Okay. Historically, all cider was left in its natural state, unprocessed and in time airborne yeasts or yeasts that were on the apple skins or the cider press would naturally start fermentation in the cider. Of course, alcohol would develop. This was a good thing because it would stop the growth of bad bacteria. Anyway, when modern refrigeration came about, then people could avoid the fermentation if they didn't want it by keeping their cider in the refrigerator. However, as Brandon has discovered in making cider, eventually over time, even cider that's refrigerated will begin to develop alcohol.
Matthew:
Oh, sure. Yeah. It slows the process down, but it doesn't stop it.
Molly:
Right. Anyway, but as with many products, if you interrupt the refrigeration in any way, bad bacteria can grow and so there've been outbreaks of injury, outbreaks of injury.
Matthew:
Well, I mean, I'm sure you could injure yourself with a cider press pretty badly if your hand got stuck in it or something.
Molly:
Anyway, but now at least the US government requires that all commercial cider be heat or radiation-treated. Yeah. Anyway, so yeah, Rose cider is this special thing and it's really cool and it's great.
Matthew:
It's really cool because that slows fermentation process.
Molly:
Now, Matthew is going to talk about what happens once it's become alcoholic.
Matthew:
Oh, that's me. Okay. Hard cider, what is it and where does it come from? Well, hard cider is a fermented apple cider, but only sort of. What I mean is, really good hard cider. Well, let me back up a minute. As you know, we strive not to be snobby on this show.
Molly:
Even though we talk about Dungeness crab all the time.
Matthew:
Even though Molly gets a bag full of freshly steamed Dungeness crab delivered to her every single day.
Molly:
Even though Matthew orders, cassoulet kits from the Ten Yen.
Matthew:
Even though I ordered a cassoulet, it was for my birthday. I might order another one, not for my birthday. But yes, even though we are those kinds of people, we love Cool Ranch Doritos, and we love Snickers ice cream bars. We don't complain that the Cool Ranch Doritos aren't made with artisan heirloom corn varieties or that these Snickers and ice cream bar doesn't have 70% chocolate. However, I am only speaking for myself now. I think the mass market, six pack ciders are very bad and real hard cider is one of the most delicious things you can put in your mouth. Well, it has grown exponentially in popularity in the last 10 or 15 years. It's still less popular than I think it should be. What makes something a real hard cider is that it is made with cider apples.
Matthew:
I didn't know cider apples existed until I wrote an article about this maybe 10 or 12 years ago. Cider apples are really just the apple equivalent of wine grapes. If you want to snack on a grape, you are not going to snack on a bunch of Cabernet Sauvignon grapes or your mom's favorite crackling Cot Sauvignon blanc grapes, because if they're red grapes, they are going to be tannic, so they're going to make your mouth feel all like dry and tingly and they're going to be sour. Right? Those are things that help make a good wine. They give it like a complex flavor, they help preserve it, but they are the opposite of what you're looking for in a snacking grape. Right?
Molly:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Matthew:
The same is true of cider apples. Cider apples are always high in tannins and that's called bitter in the world of apples and usually high in acids. There are two classic types of cider apples. This is kind of from the British cider making tradition, but generally speaking, in the world of hard cider, there are bitter sharp apples, which are tannic and sour and there are bittersweet apples, which are tannic and not sour. There are a bunch of varieties and because this is the world of apples, I'm going to name off some cider apple varieties. I did not make a quiz. Here's some popular cider apple varieties, Kingston Black, Yarlington Mill, Brown Snout, Chisel Jersey.
Molly:
Oh, chisel Jersey.
Matthew:
Isn't that great?
Molly:
Oh my God, that seems like it should be, I don't know the name of a race car driver or something.
Matthew:
It does. Yes. Well, it's what you get after you win Johnny patriot on the Arizona 500 and now he's wearing the Chisel Jersey.
Molly:
What does a Brown snout seem like it would be?
Matthew:
It sounds like Brown nosing, right?
Molly:
Yeah. I mean, it also kind of seems like what you would call a pig that's been wallowing in slop.
Matthew:
Yes.
Molly:
Like, Oh God, I got a whole corral full of Brown Snouts.
Matthew:
Yeah. What am I going to do about these Brown Snouts? I mean, they seem to be engaging in completely normal pig beef. For some reason, I'm the pig farmer. I'm concerned.
Molly:
Okay. Okay. Wait a minute. This is really interesting to me, Matthew. I didn't know any of this because really, as I just explained, my only cider making experiences is watching Brandon make cider in his cider press. Yeah. I mean, here in Washington State, we ordinary people are able to get a pretty wide variety of apples, but certainly not these cider apples.
Matthew:
No. I mean, they don't sell at the store because no one would buy them unless you're actually making cider at home. Yeah, and if you took the delicious fresh pressed cider that that Brandon makes and fermented it, it would be okay. It would be the equivalent of wine made with Concord grapes. That's stuff that you want to drink fresh. Fermenting it is not really going to improve it. It's going to improve its keeping qualities, but it's not going to be something you're super excited to drink. Whereas ciders made with cider apple varieties have an incredible range of flavors, so which comes from the apples and some comes from the yeast that's used to ferment them.
Molly:
Well, this is interesting because, yeah, I have only had a pretty limited amount of hard cider because I have not really differentiated in my mind between the mass market stuff and then the stuff that, I don't know, that you might find on a restaurant menu that comes in a wine size bottle. You know what I mean?
Matthew:
Right.
Molly:
It is amazing the degree to which "nice apple cider" really tastes nothing like a raw unfiltered apple juice. I'm not even sure if I would always know that it's made with apples.
Matthew:
Yes. I think that's true especially if it's dry. When apple cider is not sweet, a lot of what we think of as apple flavor is coming from the sugar and so you get just a totally different flavor profile that is delicious in its own way.
Matthew:
For some reason, even though you can ship bottles of cider wherever you want and artisan beers are available, nationally, good, hard cider is mostly still local and regional. There are some exceptions. The Etienne DuPont is a very good French hard cider that is pretty widely available, nice and cloudy.
Molly:
Is it made in the North of France?
Matthew:
I believe it is. Yeah.
Molly:
Would it be Normandy?
Matthew:
I think that's right.
Molly:
Crepes and cider.
Matthew:
Yeah, because it's the Etienne DuPont Pommeau de Normadie.
Molly:
Ah, okay. This makes a lot of sense to me.
Matthew:
You want more. Yeah.
Molly:
Okay.
Matthew:
That one's good. The English mass market brand Aspall is pretty good, even though it's probably not made with cider apples. Here in the Northwest, some of my favorites are Irvine's Vintage Blend, Finnriver, Westcott Bay, Wandering Aengus and Seattle Cider Company Dry, which again, if you really make it with care, you can make a very tasty cider from dessert apples, table apples. It's not going to have the complexity of a true cider made with cider apples, but it can be a lot better than the-
Molly:
Like Mike's Hard cider.
Matthew:
Yeah. AngrY Orchard, that sort of thing, which are made with apple juice concentrate and sugar.
Molly:
Oh, okay. God, okay. This is a strangely informative episode.
Matthew:
I know.
Molly:
It's weird.
Matthew:
I was afraid of that.
Molly:
Okay. What are your favorites? I mean, do you keep cider around the house like the way that I keep like a bottle of wine in the fridge?
Matthew:
Not really because I don't drink very much, but I will have a drink once a week, maybe once every two weeks. I just don't keep a lot of perishable alcoholic beer. I mean, I guess it's not perishable if it's in the fridge, in the bottle, but sometimes wife, Michele Laurie, will bring home a nice bottle of cider. She got a bottle of Finnriver from the co-op recently that was delicious. It's something that'll come into the house occasionally and get consumed pretty quickly. It'll just wander in of its own accord, which is why they call it wandering Aengus brand.
Molly:
Most of the ciders that you like, do they come in a bottle, do some of them come in cans?
Matthew:
The Seattle Cider Company comes in cans. All the other ones I mentioned come in bottles, although they're not all wine bottle-sized bottles. Some of them are smaller than that and you could drink it yourself or share it with a friend or a loved one. They come in a range of sweetness levels. I prefer a drier cider, but unlike good quality wine, there are very good ciders ranging anywhere from bone dry to pretty sweet, not that there aren't good sweet wines, but for table drinking.
Molly:
I know this is something I would know if I had ever shopped for cider, but does it say on the label dry, extra dry or that kind of thing?
Matthew:
Yes, there's no standard for this. I think they can put on whatever they want and so different brands will use different terms and they'll vary in what level of sweetness they mean from brand to brand. They will indicate somewhere the sweetness level in some way and you'll be able to tell that you're looking at real cider because either they will brag about what kind of cider apple varieties they're using and they'll be cool apple names you've never heard of. It'll cost $10 or $12. That's a big indicator, that sort of thing.
Molly:
Wow, Okay. This is super helpful and informative. I love this. Wow, like total silence.
Matthew:
If you're new to the world of good hard cider, just get something that looks good. Get the Etienne DuPont if you see it in the wine section at your supermarket. Probably, it will be refrigerated.
Molly:
Will that be in a big bottle or in sort of a-
Matthew:
That'll be in a big bottle. You'll like it.
Molly:
Okay. We haven't talked at all about perry cider.
Matthew:
That's true. Perry.
Molly:
Perry?
Matthew:
That's what it's called in England, perry.
Molly:
Oh really? Oh.
Matthew:
Yeah.
Molly:
I remember a few years ago back when we used to eat in restaurants, if we were out at a nice dinner, I remember occasionally encountering the name Eric Bordelet, a French perry cider.
Matthew:
Yes. Oh, those are great.
Molly:
God, that stuff is incredible. Yeah. Eric Bordelet perry cider, if you ever see them on a menu, order it. Oh, it's spectacular.
Matthew:
Yeah. I know very little about perry cider. I don't know if they're special pear varieties for that or what, but yeah, the Eric Bordelet is great.
Molly:
Awesome. Oh, this is fun.
Matthew:
Yeah. All right. Oh, the other thing, I looked back at the column that I wrote about cider, which is kind of still online. The website that I wrote it for went out of business, but they republish all of their old stuff in a very busticated form.
Molly:
Busticated?
Matthew:
Yeah.
Molly:
What does that mean?
Matthew:
The HTML is all messed up and it's hard to read.
Molly:
Wait. Is busticated related to the word busted?
Matthew:
Yeah.
Molly:
No, it's not. Are you messing with me?
Matthew:
Yes. I want to say, what community would the word busticated come from? I feel like it's from the 90s. We're going to have to get a lexicographer on the case here as we so often do.
Molly:
Okay, great.
Matthew:
This is one of our new segments. What are we going to call this word segment? It's word salad, word salad with Spilled Milk.
Molly:
Okay. Any other words we want to talk about?
Matthew:
No, we can only do one word per week. We will definitely get the time.
Molly:
Oh, okay. Bustictated. Alright, everybody you're welcome.
Matthew:
I mean, it sounds like something like stoners would say or it's a youth culture gift to humanity.
Molly:
Perfect. Okay.
Matthew:
Like most new words, I guess. Okay. Would you like to do our inaugural listener mail segment?
Molly:
Yes. Does Abby have a special little piece of music to play for the segment? Take it away, Abby.
Matthew:
A few weeks back, we said we should start doing listener mail. Send us an email with a [email protected] and maybe we'll read it and answer it on the show. Then we completely forgot that we'd asked for that for several weeks.
Molly:
Today, we are listening. Whoops, today, we're listening to you.
Matthew:
No, you are listening, we're talking.
Molly:
Today, we are going to read one piece of listener mail and we're going to respond to the question.
Matthew:
Today, we're going to show you yours.
Molly:
This question comes from listener Sarah. Sarah says, "I'm a longtime listener and would love to know a little bit about your daily routines. What are your morning routines? What do you eat for breakfast? How do you set up your work life while dealing with caregiving responsibilities?"
Matthew:
Oh, that's a great question.
Molly:
This is a great question. Okay. Can I go first?
Matthew:
Be first.
Molly:
Let's just talk about morning routines and breakfast a little bit.
Matthew:
Yeah, definitely.
Molly:
Okay. My week looks dramatically different depending on whether it's the half of the week that our daughter is at our house or the half of the week that she's not. When she's not with us, I sleep in a little bit till eight o'clock. It's pretty awesome. When she is with us, I get up at 7:00 and I don't like to get dressed until I have made coffee and sort of started things. I have a bathrobe, I put on my bathrobe, I go and make coffee. I usually make just one cup of pour over coffee. I like black coffee. Then I usually have my own homemade granola either with plain yogurt or with whole milk. I hate bathing. I hate it. I find bathing to be very time consuming and I really enjoy it once I have bathed and once I am actually maybe even just in the shower. I really need my coffee to get me going so that I can tolerate the process of preparing myself for the day.
Matthew:
I think I know what you mean. I mean, you liked bathing when we were in Japan. Right?
Molly:
No, I mean, I always love it once I'm in the middle of it. I get into the shower and I'm like, "Oh my God, this is the best. Why don't I do this 24 hours a day?" Somehow, the before and after is so much work.
Matthew:
Yeah. I completely agree with that. I feel guilty about feeling that way kind of, just like, "Why can't I enjoy this moment when I'm not plugged in? Yeah, my routine is fairly similar except that I don't have your granola.
Molly:
And you don't have coffee.
Matthew:
I don't have coffee. I wake up at 6:30 pretty much every day.
Molly:
You're a very early riser. Our listeners should know that.
Matthew:
I'm a morning person. I'm up with the birds getting those worms. I still have not yet ate a couple of worms. I make a pot of green tea, Sencha tea from Japan. I do that every morning. I do that before I get dressed, almost always because, yeah, it's the same thing. I don't have a lot of ablutions or a skincare regimen that's taking a lot of time. Probably the whole showering and getting dressed process takes 11 minutes and yet it seems like it's going to take such a huge chunk out of my day that I have to psych myself up for it.
Matthew:
Well, actually, okay. Lately, my breakfast routine, and this is so embarrassing is, I will have a Chobani flip yogurt with my tea. My favorite flavor is chocolate haze craze, which has chocolate yogurt with a little thing full of toasted hazelnuts that you tip in. Then I'll have like a second breakfast later after I'm dressed, which this morning I made a quesadilla with homemade pico de gallo. I love it when there's leftovers for breakfast. If there's leftover pizza for breakfast, that's ideal. Other than the yogurt, which I have most days, I don't have a standard breakfast.
Molly:
Okay. This is so interesting to me. I never think of having a savory breakfast. I never had a savory breakfast.
Matthew:
I love savory breakfast. Then I usually start work at 7:30 on days that I'm working my office job.
Molly:
Yeah.
Matthew:
Yeah.
Molly:
Yeah. You're usually up and very productive by the time I even check my texts for the first time.
Matthew:
Yeah. I'm working on a book of folksy aphorisms about the value of getting an early and fresh start.
Molly:
Ah, nobody's ever written about that before.
Matthew:
It's going to be called Eat Three Worms.
Molly:
Great. Wait, Matthew, I had no idea that we had such similar struggles with the amount of time that it takes to get ready because I'm just like you. I should also say I don't shower every day. I have really thick hair and it really doesn't need to be washed more than a couple of times a week and I maybe shower every other day. All told it's like, I'm washing my face, I'm putting on some lotion and I put on blush and I take my medication and that's all I have to do and yet it feels like too much.
Matthew:
Yeah. I think in pandemic times, I've been feeling more pressure to be productive and feeling like if I'm doing something unproductive like showering or reading a book, then that it seems like I'm not contributing anything or bettering myself, which is not a good way to feel.
Molly:
Oh that's interesting.
Matthew:
I think I'm getting better at navigating that, but it's tough.
Molly:
Yeah. Yeah. That is tough. Okay. Let's take this second question. How do you set up your work life while dealing with caregiving responsibilities?
Matthew:
Yeah. I don't really have to deal with that anymore because my kid is almost 17 by the time you hear this and really takes care of themselves.
Molly:
You used to be a stay-at-home dad.
Matthew:
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. My life was pretty different then because this was my main job. Well, yeah and I was writing a lot. It's hard for you to look back and, and figure out how I did things back then, because I've forgotten a lot of stuff. Also, it's just like, when you go back and look at a book you wrote like, "How did I do that? Can I do that?"
Molly:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah. Honestly, I don't know how I would be getting any work done right now if I were not in a 50:50 co-parenting situation, because my daughter has not been in school in person since last March. Yeah. She's never with us Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, and then every other Wednesday she's with us. You better believe, the days that we don't have her, every Monday and Tuesday are marathon workdays.
Matthew:
Do you feel pressure to get as much out of those days as possible?
Molly:
Oh my God. Yeah. Those days, I struggle to do any domestic work that I would otherwise be doing on those days, because I am trying to consolidate all of my income generating work onto those days. It's very satisfying, but I have to do things very intentionally, which I'm sure a lot of people do, like choosing a water glass that I know is going to run out every so often, so I forced myself to stand up and leave the computer. You know?
Matthew:
I started a couple of months ago using a break timer on my computer, which has been wonderful. Oh, that's cool. I didn't know if I would really abide by it, but I've made myself just get up when the break timer tells me to get up and I have to take five minutes off and I usually will do dishes and it's made me feel better about work and better about dishes.
Molly:
Oh, that's great because, yeah, our dishes pile up big time on Mondays and Tuesdays. Yeah. Then when June comes to us, so that's either on Wednesday or Thursday, honestly online school goes best if one of us is sitting at the table with her.
Matthew:
Yeah, of course.
Molly:
That is usually me on Thursday and sometimes on Wednesday and then Ash and I are able to trade off a bit more on Fridays and then of course on Saturdays. Honestly, I do not know for all the downsides of only getting to spend 50% of my childhood with her, I cannot imagine how I would be doing anything that makes me feel remotely like myself if I had a child full-time right now.
Matthew:
Oh yeah. I totally hear you.
Molly:
Yeah, my work life is totally dependent upon the fact that I get two solid days a week with no child.
Matthew:
Yeah.
Molly:
Yeah.
Matthew:
Do you play Animal Crossing while June is gone?
Molly:
I don't because the switch goes back and forth with her. It goes back and forth with her. Matthew, Oh my God, hold on. What? We don't have time for a full on Animal Crossing segment, but she has set up a camping area with an awesome bonfire. "It's been snowing on Animal Crossing. I can't wait to go camping." She's got a sleeping bag laid out under the trees. It's wonderful.
Matthew:
That sounds lovely. A listener wrote and speaking of which, if you would like to possibly have your question featured on Spilled Milk, thank you, listener Sarah, send us an email at [email protected] and I will read all of them and pick one.
Molly:
Awesome.
Matthew:
A listener wrote to let us know that if you miss something important in Animal Crossing, such as a turkey cooking, you can set the time on your switch, back, set the time and date to a previous time and go back in time and experience it and I'm like, "There's no way Molly's going to do that."
Molly:
Yeah. I don't think I feel confident enough about my ability to navigate things on the switch.
Matthew:
Then I'm thinking even if you went back, still you'd be going back to a time when your resident services center wasn't sufficiently upgraded to attract a turkey, so I don't see how it would help. Okay. We do have to get in everybody's favorite segment and especially Producer Abby's favorite segment, cute animals you need to know.
Molly:
Oh, okay.
Matthew:
Abby, play that theme song. Okay. The cute animal that you need to know this week is the pygmy marmoset. It's the world's smallest monkey. They weigh less than an apple according to the video that I watched from a zoo in Sydney, Australia of a pygmy marmoset eating a single grape.
Molly:
Oh my God. I see this one that's clinging to someone's index finger.
Matthew:
Yes. They're so small. You can have two dozen of them in your house and then not even know it.
Molly:
Wow.
Matthew:
No, I think you'd know.
Molly:
Okay. Oh, wow. This sounds so fun.
Matthew:
Yeah. I think they actually have some at the Seattle zoo. What's the Seattle zoo? Woodland Park Zoo? Yeah.
Molly:
Yeah. Okay. Well, wow. Matthew, thanks so much. Thanks for-
Matthew:
The proliferation of segments on the show is kind of the best thing that's happened to me in 2022.
Molly:
It's really a very benevolent metastasis.
Matthew:
Yeah. That's what it is.
Molly:
Yap, okay.
Matthew:
All right. You can find us online at spilledmilkpodcast.com. You can chat with other listeners or talk, message, discuss with other listeners on Reddit at reddit.com/r/everythingspilledmilk, our unofficial Reddit site. Our producer is Abby Cerquitella. She does all the theme music for our mini segments. Until next time, thank you for listening to Spilled Milk.
Molly:
The show where...
Matthew:
Next week, it's going to be new year's Eve, but I guess if I have a joke related to that, I should save it for next week so never mind.
Molly:
Yes. Okay. Have a good time sitting under the tree by yourself, Matthew.
Matthew:
You too and if you need anything, you just text my mom.
Molly:
Okay. All right. I'm Molly Wizenberg.
Matthew:
I'm Matthew Amster-Buton.
Molly:
Hold on. Someone is knocking. Nope. I think it's a crow on the roof. Okay.
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