467: Holiday Cookies 2: The Sequel
Molly:
I'm Molly.
Matthew:
And I'm Matthew.
Molly:
And this is Spilled Milk, the show where we cook something delicious, eat it all, and you can't have any.
Matthew:
And this time we're talking about Holiday Cookies part two.
Molly:
Yes. This episode was suggested by Host Matthew.
Matthew:
Yeah. That's me.
Molly:
Yeah. That's you. I'd love that you wrote on our agenda, "It's time to go back to the tin." Is that a movie slogan or something?
Matthew:
It is a movie slogan. It's a little known mashup between Back To The Future and Tin Machine, the super group featuring, who was it? It was David Bowie and David burn. I have to look this up.
Molly:
[crosstalk 00:00:43] Wow. I don't know. That doesn't seem right. But I'm here for it. Look it up.
Matthew:
Okay. So we need to pause and look up who was in Tin Machine.
Molly:
I'll wait.
Matthew:
British American hard rock super group noted to be fronted by David Bowie. It was David Bowie and no one else you've heard of, which makes it hard for me to call it a super group, but it featured Reeves Gabrels on guitar and vocals, Tony Fox Sales on bass and vocals, and Hunt Sales on drums and vocals. Tony and Hunt are the sons of American comedian Soupy Sales. Okay. So basically it was David Bowie.
Molly:
Wow. I felt certain for a minute there as you started to read the names after David Bowie. I felt pretty sure that I was going to know one of them, and that I was going to get to show you up. But then as you kept reading, my hope dwindled down to nothing, but Soupy Sales brought it back it.
Matthew:
[crosstalk 00:01:43] Right. Yes. I do know Soupy Sales. Soupy Sales was the one who was famous for saying, "Kids, go into your parents' drawers and find the pieces of paper with dead presidents on them, and send them to me."
Molly:
Wait, what? I've really never heard of Soupy Sales.
Matthew:
I guess that drawers, purse or something.
Molly:
Wait, by drawers do you mean underwear?
Matthew:
Maybe your parents are exotic dancers and have paper money in their underwear at all times. That's how that works, right?
Molly:
Wow. Okay. How did we wind up here? We're going to talk about Holiday Cookies part two.
Matthew:
Right. We got here because we were talking about Tin Machine, the super group that released two concept albums, both of which were about holiday cookies. Just like us, our first holiday cookies episode was episode 256 in 2016.
Molly:
Oh wait, it's been that long? I thought it was last year.
Matthew:
It was not last year.
Molly:
Oh my god. Really?
Matthew:
Yeah, no. So by 2020 standards, it's been 16 years since we did that episode.
Molly:
Wow. Yeah. I'm so shocked. Truly, I thought you were going to say that it was episode 410, and we had done it in 2019.
Matthew:
I cannot say that because it would be a lie.
Molly:
Okay. Well anyway, here we are.
Matthew:
Unlike all the stuff I said about Tin Machine, which was true.
Molly:
Episode 467, and we are back talking about holiday cookies, and Matthew suggested this episode because of something that's been going on in his house.
Matthew:
Something has been going on in my house. Can you guess what it is?
Molly:
Sleeping, eating.
Matthew:
Did you say knitting?
Molly:
I said eating.
Matthew:
Oh sleeping, eating, knitting, and if you guessed cookies, you're right.
Molly:
Okay. Tell us the backstory here.
Matthew:
Okay. This story actually begins in December 2001 when Sunset Magazine published a cover story called Our Favorite Cookies, we picked the 20 best reader recipes. And I don't know if this is officially online, but we scanned it, and we're going to post a link to the show notes to the scan until Sunset Magazine tells us to take it down.
Molly:
Are you guys subscribers to Sunset Magazine?
Matthew:
We are not currently subscribers to Sunset Magazine although I think we have been in the past.
Molly:
Well, I wonder if they updated this list. That was 19 years ago.
Matthew:
Yeah. That's a good question. And if you're wondering are there any early 2000 trends in cookies that you can identify from this article? The answer is coconut.
Molly:
Oh, interesting. Sort of. Okay, Matthew. Tell us about these cookies. Can you walk us through what Sunset Magazine says are the best reader recipe Christmas cookies?
Matthew:
Yes. So the interesting thing about this, and when I say interesting I mean I don't know if this is interesting, we made the top cookie of the year, which they identified as coconut cranberry chews, and that's been a favorite cookie in our house ever since that issue of Sunset came out, and it's got orange, it's a chewy coconut and cranberry cookie with some orange zest in it, and it's very tasty. But this year, Wife Of The Show, Lori, realized that she had never made any of the other cookies from the 20 best cookies issue, and so resolved to have her holiday baking informed by, shaped by some people, some editors at Sunset 20 years ago. And so far, she has made 13 of the 20 cookies.
Molly:
Wait a minute, she's made them all this year?
Matthew:
All this year. All in the last month and a half maybe.
Molly:
There are so many good things that have happened in 2020, and this is-
Matthew:
What?
Molly:
... right at the top of the list. Well there are little good things like-
Matthew:
Yeah. Okay. Exactly. So basically there's cookies.
Molly:
Well now I feel like ... Okay. My peony plant finally really seems to have taken root.
Matthew:
Your peony has taken root.
Molly:
Also, we got a cargo box for our car this year on OfferUp. That was-
Matthew:
Is that a thing that goes on top of your car?
Molly:
Yeah. It's one of those big boxes.
Matthew:
We had one of those when I was a kid. What did we put in it though?
Molly:
Well here's the thing. Did you ever go camping as a child?
Matthew:
Yeah, we did.
Molly:
Yeah. So by the time you put your actual family members in the car, and then you put in their bags of clothes and stuff, you don't really have any room left in the car for all the camping stuff.
Matthew:
Right. So you got to put your tent polls, and your cots, and your camp stove, and your propane tank, and your tarps.
Molly:
Probably. Yeah. But anyway, we got one this year-
Matthew:
Pitons.
Molly:
... on OfferUp, and those are expensive. Good lord. We shopped around for a long time while I got used to how expensive they were even secondhand.
Matthew:
Yeah. I've done that.
Molly:
And then-
Matthew:
Can you just use like an Amazon box?
Molly:
Then we finally bit the bullet and brought one that, I think, was half the price of what it would have been brand new, and it's kind of the greatest thing that's ever happened to us as a family of people who can now only vacation within a two hour radius of home and need to get there by car.
Matthew:
Now are you afraid that you might overload it and your car would be top heavy?
Molly:
Well, Matthew, if that were the case, my entire family would have perished over Thanksgiving-
Matthew:
That's a good point.
Molly:
... because we rented a little Airbnb house on the Washington Coast and went there, just our nuclear family plus my mother who's in our bubble. Toni Negroni for those who are listening. Anyway, wow.
Matthew:
Have you asked her yet what her summer cocktail is?
Molly:
I haven't yet, no.
Matthew:
All right. I'm going to bug you about this every week.
Molly:
Anyway, we didn't want to have to go anywhere. I feel like if you're going to leave the county you live in, you shouldn't take your germs out to any grocery stores or anything.
Matthew:
Yes, yes. That makes sense.
Molly:
So anyway, we took everything we needed. We literally went nowhere once we got out there. So we had such a full car, it was stupid, but we took everything we needed for Thanksgiving.
Matthew:
I hated that so much when I was a kid when I have no room to move my leg because there was so much shit in the car.
Molly:
We even took our guineapig.
Matthew:
Percy?
Molly:
We took Percy. We put him in a baker box without the lid because it fit perfectly between the two people sitting in the back seat.
Matthew:
I was actually wondering about this because I knew that your guineapig needs a lot of love and attention whether you brought the guineapig along.
Molly:
Yeah. Because he's an only pig. So he came with us, and well he spent most of the drive coping, and most of the drive home coping.
Matthew:
What doesn't the look like?
Molly:
Well it just looks like him burrowing him into the blanket we had at the bottom of the box for him. But then once we were there, I think he really had the time of his life. He was a really happy Percy. Anyway, all this to say I don't know how I got here.
Matthew:
Well, I think this is a-
Molly:
Oh, think good things that happened in 2020. We got a secondhand roof box. I mean, cargo box.
Matthew:
Okay. First, I have a question. I've been wanting to clear out some room in our storage space so I can do some music recording in there. Do you think I can get one of these boxes and put it on the roof of our apparent building?
Molly:
Probably, probably.
Matthew:
I don't know how often our manager goes up there. He might not notice for months.
Molly:
And there are locking models. Our locks. So you can just put it up there, I don't know, chain it to something, and lock it, and you're good to go.
Matthew:
That's great. I have a lot of chains.
Molly:
Yeah. I bet you do.
Matthew:
And the other thing is, because you mentioned Percy, this would be a perfect time for our new recurring segment The Cute Animals You Need To Know.
Molly:
Oh god. I haven't been studying up. [crosstalk 00:09:34] Do you know any cute ones?
Matthew:
No, no. This is my segment. Your segment is What's New In Animal Crossing.
Molly:
Oh, I have some news about Animal Crossing.
Matthew:
Okay, great. Okay. So Abby, play the theme song for The Cute Animals You Need To Know. Update. There's a cat that snores, and it snores so loud that it wakes up its owners. And when it wakes up its owners-
Molly:
Okay. Tell me how to find it. I'm here. I'm ready to look for it on the internet.
Matthew:
I'm not sure. Let me see if I can find this again on YouTube. I'm going to search for snoring cat. I'm a little worried there may be more than one snoring cat.
Molly:
Do our listeners know how much producer Abby hates this new segment you've invented?
Matthew:
Well, she could just cut it out. She's the producer.
Molly:
That's true, that's true.
Matthew:
Okay, I got it. I'm going to text this to you right now.
Molly:
Text it. I'm ready. Do you think we can get the snoring on tape?
Matthew:
Oh, I think we could. Okay. So the title of the video is Cat Snores So Loud, We Can't Sleep. And it's about a cat who woke up its owners. Isn't that adorable?
Molly:
God, that is really cute.
Matthew:
I probably should get that cat checked out for sleep apnea, but-
Molly:
God, it does look like it's laboring quite hard to breathe, but it's so cute while it's doing it.
Matthew:
So that's really all I've got this week in Cute Animals You Should Know. Now what's new in Animal Crossing?
Molly:
Oh man. Okay, Matthew.
Matthew:
Oh. First, I need to ask was there a boost cooking demo on Thanksgiving?
Molly:
You know what? I was very confused about Thanksgiving. I think I gave the wrong information. So [crosstalk 00:11:10] here's-
Matthew:
Oh no. It's a correction.
Molly:
So, I was informed that Thanksgiving is Turkey Day in Animal Crossing as well as in many parts of North America. Anyway, here's the deal. So there was supposed to be a turkey named Franklin who was going to be set up in the village plaza outside of resident services. And Matthew, this actually sounded really fun. He was going to be doing a cooking demo, like making a meal that was not ... It was actually not a Thanksgiving-
Matthew:
Was the cookie going to be ... The turkey cooking?
Molly:
No, just wait a minute. He was not going to cook himself.
Matthew:
No. I was going to say is he going to roast a human?
Molly:
No, but that would be so fun.
Matthew:
It would be hilarious. Yeah.
Molly:
He was going to be cooking things that were specific to the island you're living on in Animal Crossing, I think.
Matthew:
So each island has its own turkey?
Molly:
I think it has its own cuisine or something.
Matthew:
Oh wow.
Molly:
I don't know. I think I'm getting ahead of myself here. I think I'm inventing things. But anyway, so Franklin was supposed to be set up in the village plaza, and it was going to be really fun. You're noticing the verb tense I'm using. It was going to be really fun because the thing is is Franklin needed certain ingredients that you, the Animal Crossing player, were going to help him find.
Matthew:
Oh that sounds like a delightful adventure.
Molly:
Doesn't that sound so fun? So Thanksgiving morning a spent a long time on my phone Googling trying to figure out why Franklin was not in June's village square or plaza or whatever the hell it was, but the thing is is you had to have upgraded your resident services building even though he was just going to be in the plaza outside.
Matthew:
Oh, that's not fair.
Molly:
I know. And June had not yet upgraded her resident services. Sot Thanksgiving day, June pulled the ... What is it? I hate using these gun metaphors. Pull the trigger, bite the bullet.
Matthew:
I was going to ask earlier if you knew where the phrase bite the bullet comes from, because I was thinking about it and realized I have no idea.
Molly:
Yeah. I wonder if we could find something else. Okay, but anyway. June finally went ahead and began the process of updating her resident services building on Thanksgiving, but everything in Animal Crossing takes actual time the way it does in the real world.
Matthew:
Sure.
Molly:
If you want to upgrade resident services, it's going to take 48 hours.
Matthew:
And by then, Franklin is long gone.
Molly:
And by then, Franklin is long gone. And can I just say that I felt, as a parent, very proud of my child for just getting over it. She was very excited for Turkey Day, and then when it didn't happen and there was no way it could happen, she got over it right away and we moved onto other things.
Matthew:
Yeah. At that age, I would have fucking lost my shit if I couldn't see a turkey roast a human in the town square.
Molly:
Anyway, so that's my Animal Crossing update. Also, June has a really sick floor in her house, which now has three rooms.
Matthew:
Wow.
Molly:
The floor is this really cool pattern. It looks like a wood floor with wood panels, slats. What do you call them? Boards. Floor boards.
Matthew:
Floor slats? Yeah.
Molly:
The panels are different shades of brown and then some shades of pink.
Matthew:
Okay. Yeah. I like that. That sounds good.
Molly:
And so she was showing me around her house, and showing me all the things she had customized, and the first thing I pointed out was how cool the floor was, and she was like, "Yeah. I didn't customize that."
Matthew:
Oh, it just came with that?
Molly:
It just came like that. So anyway, that's the latest here from Animal Crossing. So everybody, get ready for Turkey Day 2021.
Matthew:
Okay, yes. I would love to fast forward to Turkey Day 2021. I think we all would.
Molly:
Okay. Here we go.
Matthew:
All right. Would you like to talk about cookies?
Molly:
Sure. So Lori, has she been getting to work okay? She's made 13 out of 20 cookies.
Matthew:
I'm not sure. Every time I turn around, there's a new GladWare full of cookies.
Molly:
Where are you while she's doing this? Are you singing in the storage closet?
Matthew:
I'm often singing in the storage closet, and then I come out and there's three new cookies.
Molly:
Wow. God. Wow. Usually what happens here is, I don't know, I go outside to do some weeding, and I come back in, and Ashe has woven something on their lap loom.
Matthew:
A lap loom. Is that real?
Molly:
Yes. Ashe has a loom that sits on their lap, and they weave things. I'm currently in the middle of working on a quilt, and Ashe is weaving a lot of things.
Matthew:
I think if you would ask me, I would say a loom is a big wooden machine that takes up a quarter of a room.
Molly:
Oh, for sure. But there are also small looms. You can even make a loom. So Ashe made a loom out of the lid of a cardboard box for June, and she-
Matthew:
Wow.
Molly:
... wove a little thing for my mom for her birthday.
Matthew:
Okay. Well this has been loom lecture.
Molly:
Oh, is this a new segment we have?
Matthew:
New segment. I don't like the name. What's a better name than loom lecture?
Molly:
Well, Ashe-
Matthew:
Loom Room. You've entered the Loom Room.
Molly:
Wow. You know what is actually the best thing about 2020? It's all the new segments that we have.
Matthew:
It's all the new segments, yes. We're going to keep up this new segment bit until Abby quits. Okay.
Molly:
Great. So walk me through these cookies.
Matthew:
Okay. It's time for a new segment, Walk Me Through These Cookies. So as I mentioned, Wife Of The Show, Lori, has made 13 out of 20 cookies so far. I'm not going to talk about the ones she hasn't made yet because I don't have any opinion on cookies I haven't tried yet, but I'm going to go through these 13 cookies, and I'm going to tell you what I remember about them because some of them didn't make much of an impression.
Molly:
Okay.
Matthew:
I already mentioned coconut cranberry chews. What were you going to say?
Molly:
I was going to say that the next one on the list is Napoleon's hat.
Matthew:
[crosstalk 00:16:56] Okay. These were really good.
Molly:
And these are the only ones that don't have ... These don't have anything written next to them. He just wrote Napoleon's Hat. [crosstalk 00:17:02] It's self-explanatory.
Matthew:
That's because I knew I would remember these. They are a tri-corner hat shaped cookie, which is is that Napoleon's hat? Did he wear a tri-corner hat?
Molly:
I feel like Napoleon crossing ... Oh, that's Washington crossing the Delaware.
Matthew:
Oh man. No, no. When Napoleon came over to fight in the American Revolution, he wore a very fetching hat.
Molly:
Whoops.
Matthew:
This is our new segment, History Lessons With Molly And Matthew.
Molly:
Okay. No, but there's somebody that wore a tri-corner hat, and I'm not sure if it was Napoleon or not [crosstalk 00:17:39].
Matthew:
So maybe these were more like George Washington's hats, but they're kind of a hamantashen shaped cookie.
Molly:
Yes. I see it now.
Matthew:
But instead of a poppy seed filling, it has an almond paste based filling, which gets really kind of puffy and a little brown, but it retains its chewiness. Very good cookie.
Molly:
Oh, I love the thought of these.
Matthew:
Would definitely eat again.
Molly:
And what's the dough for the hat itself?
Matthew:
The dough for the hat is kind of, I think, a short bread-y dough.
Molly:
And so basically, would you say that the brain is the almond paste?
Matthew:
I was just wondering because I'm thinking like, "What's the filling of a real hat? Oh, it's your head." So yeah. So as far as we know, historically speaking, it tasted a lot like Napoleon's brain.
Molly:
These cookies sound great. So far, out of the two cookies we've discussed, this is my favorite.
Matthew:
Okay. Next up Pfeffernuesse.
Molly:
Classic.
Matthew:
Which I knew. It was a word that I knew, and I think I knew it was a cookie, but I would also get it confused with Hasenpfeffer, which I think is a rabbit dish. But Pfeffernuesse means peppernuts in German, and amazingly enough we learned that these cookies do not have to contain pepper or nuts.
Molly:
Wow. That's amazing.
Matthew:
The ones from Sunset do contain nuts, but apparently they're called pepper nuts because the pepper refers to spices, and the nuts refers to the cookies are kind of the size of a nut. But these do contain nuts and are not the size of a nut because they're like a slice and bake cookie, but they're really nice. They got little candied orange peel in them, and some, I think, pecans, and they got a nice chew to them, they brown nicely. I've been snacking on them. Maybe because of the candied orange peel, they feel like an appropriate breakfast cookie, so I've been grabbing one along with the tea in the morning.
Molly:
So where do they sit in relation to gingerbread, like a gingerbread cookie? Like a classic American gingerbread cookie?
Matthew:
They are not dark. They don't have molasses.
Molly:
Oh, they're not dark? Okay. [crosstalk 00:19:45] This makes sense.
Matthew:
So they're sort of like a shortbread cookie is like a slice. A slice and bake cookie is like a shortbread kind of, right or not necessarily?
Molly:
Well there are many kinds of slice and bake cookies, but sure. I see what you mean.
Matthew:
Yeah. It's like a kind of crumbly ... I don't know if it's more crumbly or more chewy, but kind of a whitish cookie.
Molly:
I would be curious to hear from listeners of ours who live in countries or parts of the world where Pfeffernuesse is always made at the holidays. Is this a classic? I just always imagine Pfeffernuesse being a brown cookie.
Matthew:
Yeah. I think these were not classic in some ways, but I don't really know what the original is like or if it's something that's always varied so much from village to village that there's no agreed upon archetype.
Molly:
So of the three cookies we've discussed, I know that you guys do always make the coconut cranberry chews. This is a family favorite for you, right?
Matthew:
That's a family favorite for 19 years.
Molly:
But the Napoleon's Hats and the Pfeffernuesse, would these be made again?
Matthew:
Oh yeah. I think both of these ... Definitely the Napoleon hats. I'm going to give a 70% chance on the Pfeffernuesse.
Molly:
Okay. All right. Fair enough.
Matthew:
Okay. Next up. Alfajores de Dulce de Leche. Wife Of The Show, Lori, looked around for dulce de leche, did not find any, and so made them with Carousel, salted caramel sauce from Spilled Milk listener, Kristen.
Molly:
Oh. Wait, her company, is that the Ardent Homesteader?
Matthew:
That's correct.
Molly:
Yes. Hello, listener Kristen.
Matthew:
Yeah. If you haven't ordered your Carousel yet from the Ardent Homesteader, we'll put a link in the show notes.
Molly:
Okay.
Matthew:
These are like a sandwich cookie made with two sugar cookies sandwich with the caramel sauce, and then rolled in coconut around the edge.
Molly:
Yes.
Matthew:
Team manager the show, Iris really liked them. It was one of their favorites. I found them too sweet for me.
Molly:
Okay. I wonder if there are ones that get more interesting with a couple of days age on it. Sometimes when I-
Matthew:
That's possible.
Molly:
Sometimes when there's a cookie because the actual cookie part of it is just sort of a short bread cookie. Is it a vanilla type cookie?
Matthew:
Yeah.
Molly:
I've often feel like a cookie like that needs a couple days of sitting at room temp to get its full kind of buttery depth of flavor.
Matthew:
Yeah, and I think I gave up on these after day one, and maybe I should have been in it for the long haul.
Molly:
Well, life lessons, Matthew.
Matthew:
Next up, chocolate therapy cookies. We think the problem is we made them with too high a cocoa percentage chocolate because when you try to pick them up, they would crumble into dust, and the dust was very tasty. If you took one of these and crumbled it over vanilla ice cream, it would be very satisfying. I think we're going to try these again with a more mass market chocolate.
Molly:
Was a cookie that had cocoa in the dough and chunks of chocolate in it as well or what were these like?
Matthew:
Yes, exactly. So it's kind of like if you had a chocolate, chocolate chip cookie or like a triple chocolate cookie, kind of a brownie-like cookie.
Molly:
Sure.
Matthew:
That's what it was going for.
Molly:
Okay.
Matthew:
It crumbled away into dust, as we all will some day.
Molly:
This reminds me of a cookie that my mother made for years, that I think we might have talked about on Holiday Cookies One, chocolate rads.
Matthew:
[crosstalk 00:23:11] Oh, we definitely did. I remember that name.
Molly:
Yeah. It was like a triple chocolate cookie. Those are really solid.
Matthew:
Yeah. Oh, I definitely am a fan of that style of cookie, and there's another one coming up that's just a simple twist on it that did come out really well. That's a teaser.
Molly:
Oh, I'm here for it, Matthew.
Matthew:
Next up, cranberry rugelach. This was Wife Of The Show, Lori's first time making rugelach. I've never made them before either although I've eaten them. I did not know how they were made because of the cranberry. It was so funny. You roll out the dough into a big circle, and then you spread it with the cranberry filling, which is made with orange and I don't remember what else. But it looked exactly like you're putting tomato sauce on a pizza.
Molly:
Oh my god, really?
Matthew:
And then you cut it into pizza slices, and roll them up-
Molly:
[crosstalk 00:24:00] That's delightful.
Matthew:
... and then bake them. Yeah. It was great.
Molly:
And was the dough really ... It's usually so flakey in these pastries. Was it really flakey and tender?
Matthew:
It was. It came out really nice.
Molly:
Okay. Nice. My dad loved these. Well he pronounced it rugelach. I have no idea [crosstalk 00:24:18] what to do.
Matthew:
Yeah. I'm not totally sure, and sometimes people don't say the C-H.
Molly:
I remember. This was one of those things I remember him introducing me to with great pride. Maybe we were in a coffee shop somewhere and they had a glass cookie jar of them, and he was like, "Oh, you should try one of these." I think I have never had a cranberry one. I've only had ones that maybe had cinnamon and nuts inside.
Matthew:
Right.
Molly:
[crosstalk 00:24:46] Cinnamon sugar.
Matthew:
Yeah. It should have nuts, but it had the added twist of cranberry.
Molly:
And how did you feel about it? Would you make again?
Matthew:
I didn't make them.
Molly:
[crosstalk 00:24:55] Would Lori make them again?
Matthew:
So, would I eat them again? Yes. In fact, there are some on the counter now, and I may eat one after this episode.
Molly:
Okay. Would Lori make them again?
Matthew:
I didn't get the sense that she would.
Molly:
Okay. All right. Fair enough.
Matthew:
All right. Next up, Chinese almond cookies. The less said, the better. This is a very boring sugar cookie with a blanched almond on top. The cool thing about this was that Lori blanched almonds for the first time, and that worked really well, but I feel like there's a whiff of Orientalism about this cookie, and it wasn't very good.
Molly:
Okay. Yeah. I think the name of this cookie is very problematic. I hope that it would be updated in a 2020 context.
Matthew:
Yes. Updated perhaps by not being included. All right. Next up, chocolate chip meringues. Pretty good. I'm not a big merengue person, but I think the chocolate integrated nicely. They smelled great while they were baking, like a great, pure chocolate aroma, and they certainly all got eaten.
Molly:
Okay. Yeah. Pretty good that you wrote here.
Matthew:
I wrote pretty good. How do you feel about meringues?
Molly:
I love meringues, but I don't always think of them as a cookie. I think that meringues are-
Matthew:
A candy?
Molly:
Well the only time I'm really ever interested in meringues is when I see a really big, a fist sized merengue in a bakery. Do you know what I mean? I think that you want them to be [crosstalk 00:26:17] large-
Matthew:
Yeah. I know what you mean.
Molly:
... so that you can have that real textural contrast between the outside that's crunchy, and the inside that's maybe still a little marshmallow-y just a little bit. And I wonder-
Matthew:
[crosstalk 00:26:27] Yeah. These were small ones that were mostly just on the crunchy side, but with a little softened melty chocolate.
Molly:
Yeah. I don't like that when it's just crunchy all the way through. Or it's not that I don't like it. It just doesn't do it for me.
Matthew:
I understand. Next up, we have royal raspberry bars. This is a bar cookie with a layer of raspberry jam and then a layer of merengue on top, and I would describe it as incoherent.
Molly:
I was fascinated when I read that. First, I thought, "Wow. Maybe Matthew was typing something else." I couldn't figure out how your cookie could be incoherent, and then I thought, "Of course, the cookie can be incoherent."
Matthew:
Oh yes. We all had the same response. This isn't bad, but we don't understand how the merengue, and the raspberry jam, and the cookie layer are all meant to go together. It seems like a couple of different recipes got mashed up.
Molly:
Yeah. Okay.
Matthew:
So would not make again.
Molly:
That's so weird. I would never think to do merengue on top of raspberry jam although I guess it's not a totally wild or crazy idea because raspberry can be so nice and tart, merengue is sweet.
Matthew:
Okay. I said I wasn't going to talk about cookies that have not yet been made, but there's one coming up that I am terrified of, but also excited to try in case it's good, which is mocha marmalade cookies. They combine coffee, chocolate, and orange marmalade, which sounds bad. But what if it's not?
Molly:
Yeah. I think we've talked before about the problems of combining chocolate and fruit, and I don't know how I feel about coffee and fruit. [crosstalk 00:28:13] It just doesn't make any sense to me.
Matthew:
Yeah. I don't even have a sense. I guess you can get a raspberry mocha or something, but it's not something I would order.
Molly:
Yeah, yeah. Okay. Fair enough.
Matthew:
All right. Next up, orange anise bizcochitos. I do not remember these cookies.
Molly:
How long has Lori been engaged [crosstalk 00:28:34] in this endeavor?
Matthew:
Kind of like a month.
Molly:
You don't remember cookies you ate a month ago?
Matthew:
If I give you 13 cookies of various quality-
Molly:
Fine.
Matthew:
... and then gave you a test on what cookies you just ate, would you remember all of them?
Molly:
No. But if I were going to tape a podcast with my dear friend Molly about it, you better believe I would go through in my memory, and I would relive each of those cookies, so that I could tell me dear friend Molly about them.
Matthew:
Here's what I'm going to do. Right before we started taping the show, Wife Of The Show, Lori, shared with me a Google photos album-
Molly:
Oh boy.
Matthew:
... with pictures of all of the cookies.
Molly:
Oh my god. Wow. What?
Matthew:
I'm going to see if I can figure out which ones-
Molly:
What a human. Oh, that [Watsel 00:29:22].
Matthew:
Okay. I'm looking at these pictures of all these cookies, and I still don't know which one is the bizcochitos. It must be this one.
Molly:
Well that's really helpful.
Matthew:
Oh, right. These are the ones that had tons and tons of anise seed. Oh yeah. Anise is in the name. Okay. These were the cookies-
Molly:
Is a bizcochito, is that twice cooked?
Matthew:
Oh, you know what? I think you're right. I think it's twice cooked in the same sense that biscuit also means twice cooked.
Molly:
Or biscotti.
Matthew:
Oh, whoa. Okay. You just blew my mind.
Molly:
I'm a real linguist.
Matthew:
Bizcochitos, biscuits, and biscotti are all ... They're not the same thing, but-
Molly:
Wait, were these twice cooked though or am I just ... Please. Let's be clear. I don't know what I'm talking about.
Matthew:
Okay. I'm looking up bizcochito. This is going to be one of those episodes that has a lot of pauses to look things up. Bizcochitos are a crisp lard or butter based cookie flavored with cinnamon and anise. The name is a Spanish diminutive form of bizcocho. The dough is rolled and traditionally cut into the shape of stars and crescent moons. The cookie was developed by residents of New Mexico over the centuries from the first Spanish colonists of what was then known as Santa Fe de Nuevo Mexico. Greatly influenced not only by local and indigenous customs, but also by recipes brought to New Mexico by immigrants from other Hispanic countries. This is a cookie with a venerable history, and I think you really have to like anise see.
Matthew:
Yeah. So now that I remember, it was the one with all the anise seed. I was like, "Okay. If I was really into anise seed, I wd think this is a good cookie." The texture was good, it was not too sweet, but it had a lot of anise seed.
Molly:
Okay. All right. Fair enough. I would love to try that. I think that sounds nice. I think it sounds like the kind of cookie that ... Well you mentioned earlier, grabbing a Pfeffernuesse along with your tea. I think it sounds like the kind of cookie that would be really nice to grab with your afternoon tea, but my snacks never look like that.
Matthew:
Never look like what?
Molly:
Well, I rarely, maybe one out of every 10 days do I make myself a cup of tea in the afternoon, and I never have a cookie with it.
Matthew:
Okay. But you could, right?
Molly:
But I could. I don't know why I never think to.
Matthew:
Yeah. Okay. Well are you coming over tomorrow to get your paycheck? Because I could give you a lot of cookies. Not this one because we finished them.
Molly:
Let's discuss off the air-
Matthew:
Okay. Great.
Molly:
... so that our listeners don't get jealous.
Matthew:
All right. Next up, nutmeg sugar cookies. This was a very boring sugar cookie with a little nutmeg.
Molly:
Ah, okay. All right. Fair enough.
Matthew:
Chocolate macadamia nut clusters. This was my favorite so far. I love chocolate, I love macadamia nuts. It was basically like a chocolate rad, but with whole macadamia nuts in it. Highly recommended. These went fast.
Molly:
Cool. Okay. So these will definitely be made again?
Matthew:
Yes.
Molly:
Were they enjoyed by Watsel as well?
Matthew:
These were enjoyed by everybody.
Molly:
Oh, great. I love this. Okay.
Matthew:
And finally, for now, until next week when we do Holiday Cookies Three with the seven remaining recipes, I think we do have to do this, right? I guess we'll see what listeners say.
Molly:
I think you have to ask your wife because she's the one who has to do the real leg work here.
Matthew:
Well, but she's going to make the rest of the cookies whether or not we do an episode about it. I'm just scratching around for any ideas for a podcast.
Molly:
It reminds me of a chicken. Chicken scratch.
Matthew:
I am like the turkey. Do turkey also scratch?
Molly:
I'm not sure.
Matthew:
I want to be like the turkey that didn't show up for Thanksgiving in Animal Crossing.
Molly:
Franklin.
Matthew:
[crosstalk 00:33:02] Franklin. Yeah. Like Franklin, I am too good for this shit. You need to expand your consumer services center or whatever it's called before I'm going to show up at your party.
Molly:
Consumer? Resident services, Matthew.
Matthew:
That's very close.
Molly:
Hold on, wait. I want to hear about the Louisiana pecan balls, but I just want to have a moment where we discuss some holiday cookie logistics in 2020.
Matthew:
Oh yeah. Let's do that.
Molly:
So, a month ago, I was starting ever so tentatively to think about what to give people for Christmas this year, and I was realizing the degree to which I rely upon the fact that for years now, I have made these tins of holiday cookies [crosstalk 00:33:47] and given them out to friends.
Matthew:
Oh yeah. We look forward to it every year.
Molly:
Well, I kind of feel like even though we know, at least as of the air date of this show, December 10th, that food is not the most common way of transferring COVID, right?
Matthew:
Right.
Molly:
It still seems to me that people are not really into sharing food right now for good reason. So, I feel like this may be the first year in my adult life that I am not going to give anyone Christmas cookies, and I feel kind of weird about that, and I wonder if I'm giving up too easily. Are you giving out Christmas cookies? Are you giving these to other people?
Matthew:
We've given some away to family members. I don't know if they ate them or not. We don't usually give out Christmas cookies in general, so we didn't have that dilemma. Could you just give cash instead?
Molly:
Absolutely not. No. And this is part of the thing. The cookies, even though a lot of these cookies are on the expensive end to make. Nuts are expensive, chocolate is expensive. At the same time, making all of these tins of holiday cookies has allowed me to feel like I could give gifts to people I really care about without spending a ton of money. Using more of my time than money.
Matthew:
You're right. You're going to have to get everyone a PS5.
Molly:
What's a PS5?
Matthew:
It's a Sony video game console.
Molly:
Okay. Anyway [crosstalk 00:35:17].
Matthew:
I was trying to think of what is the holiday gift that everyone wants to get their hands on this year, and I think maybe that's it. Get all of our listeners a Switch, so they can all join us on Animal Crossing, including me who's never played it.
Molly:
Matthew, I don't think you're going to get a Christmas present from me this year.
Matthew:
That's fine. I just-
Molly:
We're working on a holiday card, but that doesn't take the place of a tin of cookies or toffee, but it doesn't feel right to give you a tin of edible things when we're not sharing food this year.
Matthew:
All I want is your friendship.
Molly:
Really? Oh.
Matthew:
That's 100% true, and yet there was no way to say it without sounding like a sarcastic dickhead, right?
Molly:
Yeah. Okay. But anyway, Matthew-
Matthew:
But seriously, this doesn't bother me at all, and I totally understand that I'm just happy to be your friend.
Molly:
Oh thanks, man.
Matthew:
I do not need stuff in a tin in order to stay friends with you. If next year we're all vaccinated and you still don't give me a tin, then I'm going to start to have questions.
Molly:
It's going to be a real problem. Yeah. Okay.
Matthew:
Yeah. So finally, Louisiana pecan balls. These are basically like those Russian tea cakes, powdered sugar lump cookies. It's a good version of them. There was a little bit of an issue because it said to toss with powdered sugar while they're still warm, and they got really greasy.
Molly:
That's what happens. Then you let them cool, then you toss them again. You roll them twice in powdered sugar.
Matthew:
I wanted less powdered sugar than that.
Molly:
[crosstalk 00:36:50] Nope, nope.
Matthew:
The thing I always feel about these cookies is they have more powdered sugar than I need in my life and mouth. So, I grabbed one-
Molly:
Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope.
Matthew:
I grabbed one before they got powdered sugar, and just ate it naked, and it was great. The cookie was naked.
Molly:
The cookie was naked.
Matthew:
Not me.
Molly:
No. All right. Fair enough. Do you know if the pecans were toasted?
Matthew:
I believe so.
Molly:
The version of Russian-
Matthew:
It was very good. The nuts really came through nicely.
Molly:
Okay. The version of Russian tea cakes that my mother made for years and years did not call for the pecans to be toasted. But in recent years, we've started toasting the nuts and it makes a huge difference. I don't know why you wouldn't. Anyway.
Matthew:
Yeah. I agree. The only reason why you wouldn't is because toasting nuts is scary because they so quickly go from perfectly toasted to burned.
Molly:
Matthew, 2020, if you have not gotten over your fear of toasting nuts by the end of this year-
Matthew:
Yeah, you're right.
Molly:
... dear god.
Matthew:
Also, no one else is going to be upset because you didn't give them a cookie tin. This is not a thing you need to worry about.
Molly:
Oh, we're back to that now?
Matthew:
We're back to that.
Molly:
Okay. Thank you. [crosstalk 00:37:52] I appreciate that.
Matthew:
I wasn't sure if I was making that clear.
Molly:
But so am I off the hook [crosstalk 00:37:55] then on giving-
Matthew:
What I'm saying is even though I'm much more understanding than the rest of your friends and family-
Molly:
Anyway, no. The thing is is I always gave them to local friends too.
Matthew:
Yeah. I understand.
Molly:
That was my gift for my local friends, and neighbors, and stuff, and now they're just going to get nothing from me.
Matthew:
That's fine. It's totally fine.
Molly:
Okay. So wait a minute. Matthew, I see here that we should specify that Lori, also known as Watsel, made candied orange peel from scratch for some of these cookies.
Matthew:
Yeah. And I said that this went into two of the cookies, but I feel like maybe it was even more than that. I think it went into maybe the orange anise bizcochitos although that might have been just orange zest. It definitely went into the-
Molly:
Pfeffernuesse?
Matthew:
Yeah. The Pfeffernuesse and the rugelach.
Molly:
Ah. Wow. God, way to go, Watsel. That is really impressive. I've never candied any fruit myself.
Matthew:
It made the house smell really good. Not only did it make the house smell really good because you have to stew the peel in syrup and then let it dry. So a bunch of orange peel simmering in syrups, and it smells great. It's one of those things you should do if you're trying to sell your house, but then you have all this intensely orange flavored syrup, which I've been putting into my old fashions.
Molly:
Oh my god. That's great.
Matthew:
Isn't it? It's so good.
Molly:
Oh my god. Okay. So all right, Matthew. I feel like we have reached an ending point, but I think maybe we can soon do Holiday Cookies Three, but-
Matthew:
I think so. Let's see what people [crosstalk 00:39:31] think of this episode.
Molly:
I think it might come in early 2021.
Matthew:
But yeah, I'm going to have seven more cookies to talk about.
Molly:
I'm so excited. I can't wait. Wait a minute, I also want to give a little shout out actually while I'm here. So when this episode airs December 10th, it will be one day too late for an event that I'll be doing with Luisa Weiss, author of Classic German Baking, but it's not too late for me to give a shout out to this book, Classic German Baking, which has a lot of Christmas-y cookie recipes in it in additional to all kinds of other things. But talk about Pfeffernuesse. Luisa has a recipe in here for Pfeffernuesse, and it just occurs to me that it doesn't feel right to do a Holiday Cookies episode without mentioning this book, which I kind of feel like it is a real bible on some of these cookies.
Matthew:
All right. Let's link to them in the show notes.
Molly:
Cool. Okay. Yeah. So check it out. Classic German Baking by Luisa Weiss, and see what she says about Pfeffernuesse and other things.
Matthew:
Yeah. I can't wait. I bet this book sounds like it would be a good present for wife of the show, Lori. Don't tell her.
Molly:
Okay.
Matthew:
Okay. You could find us at SpilledMilkPodcast.com. When we say something is going to be in the show notes, that's in the description of your podcast player. All those links will be there. You can also find us on Reddit. Reddit.com/r/EverythingSpilledMilk where I'm having fun chatting with the fans. What do we do over there? People are talking about perfectly engineered food products, they're making episode suggestions. Join up. It's fun, it's full of nice people. I even hang out there sometimes.
Molly:
Cool.
Matthew:
Anything else? Our producer is Abby Cerquitella. She's the one who cut out six other segments that we did that didn't air this week.
Molly:
Yeah. Happy baking, everybody. We'll see you next week.
Matthew:
And until next time, thank you for listening to Spilled Milk.
Molly:
The show that's filling your brain with almond paste.
Matthew:
I'm Matthew Amster-Burton.
Molly:
And I'm Molly Wizenberg.
Matthew:
I loved it when Napoleon showed up for the American Revolution. That's [inaudible 00:41:42].