466: Cinnamon Toast
Molly:
I'm Molly.
Matthew:
And I'm Matthew.
Molly:
This is Spilled Milk, the show where we cook something delicious, eat it all. Well, actually, today you probably have everything, to be able to have some in your own accounts.
Matthew:
Molly, did you make some signs of contract under duress that says you can't do the slogan correctly anymore?
Molly:
I am not able to answer that question.
Matthew:
Okay, I understand. All right, my rescue team is still trying to figure out what's going on. We'll update the listeners as events warrant.
Molly:
Great, it's early December. We are taping this actually on a Sunday morning. You're possibly hearing this on a Thursday, but we're taping this on a Sunday morning, and if one thing says cozy December weekend, might be cinnamon toast really.
Matthew:
Yeah. When I invite someone for a cozy December weekend, cinnamon toast is definitely what I have in mind.
Molly:
What else do you invite people for, on a cozy December weekend? Of course, hypothetically, because we're not inviting anyone.
Matthew:
Absolutely not. Definitely a quilt, maybe a pile of quilts.
Molly:
Well, Matthew brings this up because I told him that last Sunday, I started a new quilt. It's my second quilt ever.
Matthew:
Is this one going to be for you, or is it going to be a gift for that special someone?
Molly:
Quilts are too much work, I'm not willing to give them away yet. My first one I made in 2017 and finished it around the time of my divorce. Privately, I think of it as my divorce quilt.
Matthew:
That makes sense.
Molly:
It was my first ever, and this one's going to be my second ever. And by God, we're going to keep this one too, because I'm just... I don't know. Maybe when I retire, who am I kidding? I'm never going to be able to retire. I was going to say maybe when I retire, I'll be able to make enough quilts that I'll feel like giving them away, but that's never going to happen.
Matthew:
But once you hit 20, I think, and if you also have 20 mattresses, you can do a Princess and the Pea scenario, which is a great...
Molly:
Oh, is it 20?
Matthew:
I think it was originally 20, in the brothers Grimm version. I could be making this up, and then it got expanded to 100 in a later version.
Molly:
Wow. Okay.
Matthew:
But I think the original was 20 silk comforters and 20 mattresses or something. First of all, they hate it when you do this in the bedding department at Macy's, but, has it stopped me yet?
Molly:
Yes.
Matthew:
You're asking What do I have in mind, when I invite someone for a cozy December weekend? And the answer is, cinnamon toast and princess and the peaing, we call it. No, wait, we don't call it that. Nevermind.
Molly:
Oh, wow. Gosh, you and Laurie know how to party it up. This is why so many babies are born in September, because everybody's princess and the peaing is September.
Matthew:
Yeah I got it I can math. That's exactly right. The problem is, one person gets up on the pile of mattresses and comforters, and then the other person is like, "I don't know if I can get up there." And then the first person is like, "I don't know if I can get down from here." Then it quickly turns from the princess and the pea scenario to a cat caught in a tree scenario.
Molly:
Oh, Which rhymes. Good job. Hey, hold on. I have a child who is trying to break her way into my studio here.
Matthew:
All right, let's see what happens.
Molly:
Which is my closet. June, do you have anything you want to say about cinnamon toast?
June:
Yummy.
Molly:
All right. Well, that seems to start us right off. Okay, June, actually I do need you to leave my closet now, get out my...
June:
Everyone's in the closet.
Molly:
All right, Let's get going here.
Matthew:
By the way, cinnamon toast is the topic of today's episode. I don't think we've said it yet.
Molly:
Oh, Whoops.
Matthew:
That's fine.
Molly:
Well, let's start on memory lane. Shall we?
Matthew:
All right, My mom, Judy Amster often made cinnamon toast as a treat, when I was growing up. And that's all I remember.
Molly:
Would this be an after-school thing, or you didn't scream at the dentist thing Or...
Matthew:
I think more just an after-school thing, or maybe a brunch time treat.
Molly:
Yeah. Okay. All right.
Matthew:
What if you didn't scream at the dentist, you would get an additional treat when you got home, on top of getting to open the drawer full of sheddy toys?
Molly:
No. Going to the dentist for me as a child was such a fraught and anxiety producing experience, that it's all very hazy to me. I don't even think I got anything extra when I got home.
Matthew:
So you're afraid of dental emergencies and also dental non-emergencies?
Molly:
I was, as a child, but now I've gotten over it and I can go to the dentist now, I can have cavities filled, no problem. But when I was a kid, it was a big, big, big deal.
Matthew:
Oh yeah. I was terrible.
Molly:
Anyway, but when I was a kid, I don't remember cinnamon toast in particular being a treat.
Matthew:
Was it a punishment?
Molly:
I don't remember having a lot of it. It was one of those things that we would just occasionally get offered.
Matthew:
Yeah. I feel the same way.
Molly:
In the rotation of things. But I do remember that we definitely used whatever sandwich bread we had around, which was probably Home Pride Whole Wheat Bread. And I do remember my parents putting on the cinnamon sugar. I think that they kept a little bit of cinnamon sugar in a small Mason jar, and then they would apply it to the toast using a teaspoon, scoop up some sugar in the teaspoon and shake the teaspoon over the toast.
Matthew:
Yeah. I think you've described exactly the Judy Amster method as well.
Molly:
Yeah. My grandmother-
Matthew:
Did your parents refer to it as the Judy Amster method?
Molly:
No, they didn't. My late grandmother, Elaine Mac, at some point, I can't remember whether it was when she died or whether it was when we moved her out of her independent apartment into assisted living, I got to keep her dedicated cinnamon sugar shaker, which was ceramic. It has a little cock that fits in the bottom, you turn it upside down and load it up, and then you shut the cork back in.
Matthew:
Oh, I know what you mean.
Molly:
Do you know what I mean?
Matthew:
Yes.
Molly:
And it's like a small cork, it's almost like an actual wine bottle cork, it's like that. I don't know if this pottery was English or what, but it's this grayish white glaze, and it says cinnamon sugar on its calligraphy and blue glaze.
Matthew:
It was part of a set of a particular pattern of pottery that said, "Cinnamon sugar." on all the pieces.
Molly:
Exactly. Anyway, I inherited it, I brought it home. I found it absolutely charming. And when I was typing up the agenda for this episode, I went and looked at the very back of my tippy top cabinet in the kitchen to see if it was still there. And it's still there, Matthew. I know that it goes against all things, Marie Kondo, that I should have had this thing in my kitchen for at least 10 years. And I've never used it
Matthew:
Well, but when you picked it up, did it spark joy? That's the question.
Molly:
It does spark joy. I love it.
Matthew:
Then she will tell you to keep it.
Molly:
And yet I don't ever use it, because we just don't eat that much cinnamon toast.
Matthew:
Well, that's about to change.
Molly:
Hold on. I have one other thing to say about the late Elaine Mac. So there are two other things that I got to take home from the process of helping move her out of this apartment. One was, it's basically a file box filled with all of her love letters to and from my grandfather, from during the second world war.
Matthew:
And was any of them nasty?
Molly:
They are frisky. Some of them are really frisky. And there's also a whole saga of the negotiation between their parents, because one of them was Catholic and one was a [inaudible 00:08:28]couple. And this was a big to do, trying to get their parents permission. The things people get worked up about.
Matthew:
Those are so close to the same thing.
Molly:
But hold on. I'm not done, Matthew.
Matthew:
Wait, wait, I want an example of what would be a frisky thing from a '40s love letter.
Molly:
Oh, well, she would sign. I surely have told you this.
Matthew:
I think so.
Molly:
She would sign her letters to him, either as this whole phrase, "Your very own yummy."
Matthew:
Oh yes. I do you remember this.
Molly:
Or yummy, just yummy or Y V O Y, your very own yummy.
Matthew:
That is so cute. And she almost invented yolo.
Molly:
Almost, but not quite. She also kept the champagne cork from their wedding. And the nickel, or the quarter, or something that was in her shoe the day that they got married, for good luck. She kept all of this, in this little file box.
Matthew:
Was this a penny loafer type of shoe, or was there a coin that just fell into her shoe?
Molly:
No, I think it was a coin that you would keep inside your shoe, maybe it was something old or something, whatever.
Matthew:
Never heard of this, but I believe you.
Molly:
I have one other thing to say, Which is that she had this little recipe box that was, sized to perfectly fit index cards. Did your mom ever have one of those, or your grandmother?
Matthew:
I think so.
Molly:
My grandmother's was this really pretty floral pattern on the outside. And I got to keep that too. And I once wrote a blog post about this, but wow, it had some treasures in it. And one of the treasures I found was something that she just called cinnamon toasts, and which I can describe later, but it basically makes cinnamon toast into almost a rusk that you can then keep in a tin on the counter.
Matthew:
Oh, now that's interesting.
Molly:
We'll get there.
Matthew:
I was going to use the word rusk in this episode also.
Molly:
Oh God.
Matthew:
It's one of my classic teasers.
Molly:
I think I might've learned that word from you, because who else says this stuff, other than you, just walking around like, "Rusk, rusk, rusk."
Matthew:
Am pretty much the last remaining Ruskman. The last real Ruskman alive.
Molly:
I can't Wait to see that movie. The Last Real Ruskman.
Matthew:
The Last Ruskman?. It's a sweeping historical epic.
Molly:
Have we told the listeners that we decided that, if my latest book is ever made into a TV show, or a movie, or something, that you are going to be played by, Michael. Oh God, I forgot his name now.
Matthew:
I don't remember that We decided this.
Molly:
Do you remember this? No, no. The guy who plays the dad, in Call Me by Your Name and gives the wonderful [inaudible 00:11:19] speech.
Matthew:
Right? Yes. I do remember this. I watched, I haven't seen the movie.
Molly:
I almost said SARS guard, but that's all wrong, Stuhlbarg.
Matthew:
The guy from the movie.
Molly:
That guy from the movie, the guy. That's going to be you Matthew. And you're going to give a whole bunch of heartfelt talks to me.
Matthew:
When they're casting the movie or TV show, they call you and ask who should we cast? Because that's how it works. Definitely say, "Get the guy from that one movie."
Molly:
Yeah. Anyway, I'm sure that our listeners, whoever is listening to this, who has actually read my latest book, you will agree that Matthew would be perfect. Played by the dad professor. What's his name? Elio's dad in[inaudible 00:12:06] by your name.
Matthew:
Having watched that scene, I would absolutely agree that'd be a great honor. And I think I should be a major character in this non-existent TV show.
Molly:
I wonder if we could also get that guy to play you in The Last Real Ruskman?
Matthew:
Yes, of course. What does the last real Ruskman do? Is it Ruskman or Ruskmen? I was saying Ruskmen.
Molly:
Is that even what we called it before, the last real rusk user?
Matthew:
Definitely it wasn't rusk user. Are you kidding? You are such a rusk user.
Molly:
I'm picturing the Ruskmen or Ruskman as the little toast guy who symbolizes the neighborhood of Nakano in Tokyo.
Matthew:
Yes. Oh yes. Exactly.
Molly:
Like a tiny piece of crusty toast, with a face on it.
Matthew:
I am a tiny piece of crusty toast, and you got to love me because I'm the last one of my kind. I want to come back around to the term ruskuser though, because I like how it sounds so derogatory, like, "You're the person who would just use a rusk and that throw it away."
Molly:
I would never say that about you man. That is way too mean.
Matthew:
But I would eat it.
Molly:
You would. Let's get on with it, and then you can tell us about how you are going to work the word rusk into the cinnamon toast episode.
Matthew:
I'm excited.
Molly:
Okay. Let's let's get to it.
Matthew:
All right. Well, you did the research and the next thing on the agenda is some stuff that you learned about cinnamon sugar. So why don't you get to it?
Molly:
I googled cinnamon toast, and there was no Wikipedia entry for cinnamon toast.
Matthew:
Oh, Wow. How are we even doing this episode?
Molly:
I don't know. But instead, I decided to go to the Wikipedia entry on cinnamon sugar, which strangely listed the following foods as places that cinnamon sugar is used, Belgian waffles, Snickerdoodles, tortillas, coffee cake, French toast, and churros. Oddly, they did not mention toast in the first several sentences.
Matthew:
Churros are an excluded Cinnamon toast.
Molly:
French toast is a fried toast.
Matthew:
It's a fried toast. Yeah.
Molly:
Anyway, cinnamon sugar started showing up in recipe books in the mid 1800s, if not earlier. Surely it's existed for way longer than that, given that, I did look up cinnamon itself as a spice and its use dates at least back to 2000 BC. So surely somebody was like, "Hey, this would be tasty with some sugar." And mixed the two of them together?
Matthew:
The first thing I'm wondering, to go back to your Wikipedia experience is like, do you think there is a Wikipedia editor who was somehow hurt by cinnamon toast and wants try and expunge its existence from Wikipedia, and that's why there's no page for it, and it's not mentioned on the cinnamon page?
Molly:
That would be incredible dedication, because people must be constantly trying to create Wikipedia pages for cinnamon toast. And there's one person out there who's like, "You will not." And he just keeps deleting them.
Matthew:
For any weird trifling vendetta you can come up with. There is some guy on the internet where that's his thing, right?
Molly:
Sure.
Matthew:
Am not actually serious about this cinnamon toast vendetta, but the more I talk about it, the more maybe I am serious.
Molly:
But wait, you wrote here on the agenda that you think may be the reason that cinnamon sugar started showing up in recipe books in the mid 18oos is that was the point at which sugar might've become so ubiquitous that you could just fling it around with some other spice onto toast.
Matthew:
I think that was when the industrialization of white sugar production really got off the ground.
Molly:
I'm sure this has something to do with the trade in enslaved peoples, around that time as well.
Matthew:
Am sure that's true.
Molly:
Yeah. Which is probably why sugar became so much more readily available.
Matthew:
How do you make cinnamon toast? Do you carry on the Judy Amster tradition?
Molly:
Here's the thing. Matthew, I grew up with a toaster oven in my house. What toaster did your family use?
Matthew:
Toaster oven.
Molly:
Well, here in my second marriage, my spouse entered into it with a slot toaster, and I had a toaster oven. Now I am the proud owner of both a slot toaster and a toaster oven.
Matthew:
Yeah. And I just specified, now we have a slot toaster. We don't have a toaster oven now.
Molly:
Okay. I love having a toaster oven.
Matthew:
Yeah. When I have it I use it, when I don't have it I don't miss it.
Molly:
Okay. That makes sense. I like to use it to reheat. For instance, if I have some leftover fried chicken or something like that and I want to crisp it up, the toaster oven preheats much faster than the regular oven. And I don't know if that seems less wasteful, energy wise?
Matthew:
That makes sense. I think you're right.
Molly:
Then I'll warm up the toaster oven and crisp up my chicken that way. I also use it to reheat roasted vegetables, if I'm going to eat those.
Matthew:
Oh yeah. That makes sense.
Molly:
Just a little tray of them at lunchtime or something. Anyway. God, this is riveting. I always thought about making cinnamon toast in a toaster oven. This is how I think of cinnamon toast as happening, you put your bread in-
Matthew:
You put your bread out, you put your bread in and then you shake it.
Molly:
But I don't know why I think of it as requiring a toaster oven, because the truth is, when I was a kid my parents did the Judy Amster method. Which was, you toast the piece of bread, and while it's still hot, you butter it and the butter melts immediately. And then you sprinkle the cinnamon sugar over. Is that how your mom did it?
Matthew:
That's exactly it. And that's how I still do it.
Molly:
Well, I haven't made it in ages, so I don't even know how I make it.
Matthew:
I made it yesterday and today.
Molly:
Did you try any of the methods that I'm about to outline?
Matthew:
I sure did.
Molly:
Oh yeah. I'm so excited. Wow, I think I just broke my mind. I decided to go searching the blogosphere for cinnamon toast recipes and opinions. And I wound up reading the Pioneer Woman's blog post from 2010, which is called Cinnamon Toast The Right Way. I really liked that bossiness.
Matthew:
Yes, it is a good post.
Molly:
Anyway, she presents and rules out a number of different approaches. Number one is, butter the bread, sprinkle on the cinnamon sugar, bake it at 350. This is in a regular oven, and then finish under the broiler. In this instance she says, "The cinnamon sugar gets a little caramelized and crisped." And she really likes this.
Matthew:
But this is an approach that she dismissed in the end. Right?
Molly:
She did dismiss, but she said that it was maybe the second best.
Matthew:
I never heard of this idea.
Molly:
I had never heard of this either. So Ash actually often butters bread before they toast it, but otherwise it never occurs to me to butter bread before toasting it.
Matthew:
Spoken like a person with a toaster oven, because if you butter bread and then put it into a slot toaster, then you have fire.
Molly:
Well, and the interesting thing is that, Ash was previously a slot toaster person. So they must have just started this method since we moved in together.
Matthew:
As a person who is afraid of unmelted butter, I do support this idea.
Molly:
Okay, fine. Anyway. All right, the second method that we drum and describes is again, butter the bread, then you bake it in the oven at 350, then broil for a couple of minutes until it's golden, then you sprinkle with cinnamon sugar afterward. She likes this, but not as much as the first method, where you butter in cinnamon sugar before putting the thing-
Matthew:
And you know what happens to bread when you bake it for 10 minutes and then broil it, don't you?
Molly:
It must get really crispy.
Matthew:
It becomes a rusk.
Molly:
Yes. There we go. God, I'm breaking my mic again. Wow. Is this where the rusk comes in?
Matthew:
This is where the rusk comes in, because I tried one of these methods that we're about to get to, and I found it was very tasty, but distinctly rusky.
Molly:
So very, very shattering.
Matthew:
And I'm speaking as a Ruskmann. I know a rusk when I meet one.
Molly:
So, the worst approach in Ree Drummond's opinion is this third one, which is to toast the bread in a toaster, then butter it and sprinkle on cinnamon sugar. Also known as the Judy Amster/ Weisenberg household method.
Matthew:
Yes, exactly. And when I do it, I melt the butter and spread it on with a brush.
Molly:
Huh?
Matthew:
That's that's the only difference. Because, I do remember my mum would use probably room temperature butter, but I was always afraid of seeing butter.
Molly:
That's so interesting.
Matthew:
I know.
Molly:
Because I'm one of those people who really enjoy butter spread on a roll, or a cracker, or something. So that When you bite into it, you leave teeth marks. Like cream cheese, but not quite that thick. Anyway. So hold on. Ree Drummond's very favorite approach, and I also saw this on some other blogs too, is to soften butter, then you mix into it like you're making a compound butter, you mix into it, sugar cinnamon and vanilla extract. And then she spreads that on sandwich bread, she uses Home Pride. She says, "You have to do it really from edge to edge." Like really spackle it.
Matthew:
We talked about this edge to edge bread spreading thing when we did cheesy toast, was that an episode?
Molly:
Maybe.
Matthew:
And we made Welsh rarebit and you have to spread it from edge to edge or the edges get burned.
Molly:
Yeah. I love spreading from edge to edge.
Matthew:
Yeah. I know, it's a thing you might do on a cozy December weekend.
Molly:
Yeah. Anyway, then you bake this butter-shellacked toast for 10 minutes at 350.
Matthew:
I like that.
Molly:
And then you broil it for a minute or two just until it's golden. And she says, "This is the absolute best." Now, Matthew did you try this?
Matthew:
I did try this.
Molly:
What do you think?
Matthew:
Let's talk about it. This is delicious, and it is so different from the cinnamon toast that I grew up with, it's just a totally different thing.
Molly:
Does it have a different flavor do you think? From the butter and the sugar being toasted.
Matthew:
A little bit, and it has a very different texture, it's much more unrestrained in its use of butter, I would say. And because you're softening, unless you keep butter at room temperature, which you do. Right?
Molly:
I do.
Matthew:
We keep butter in the fridge. So you're looking at 90 minutes from the moment you'd think, "I could go for some cinnamon toast." To pulling the broiled cinnamon toast out of the oven.
Molly:
I definitely got the feeling that ReeDrummond has a large family of hungry ranchers.
Matthew:
Yes.
Molly:
Part of what bothers me about this approach is, I live in a household where there are, for half the week there are two of us.
Matthew:
Two hungry ranchers.
Molly:
Two hungry ranchers, and then for the other half of the week, there is a third, smaller, hungry rancher.
Matthew:
Question, do you have any Jolly Ranchers in your house?
Molly:
There are three people maximum, plus a guinea pig and a dog. But they don't eat cinnamon toast. And just even mixing up one stick of butter like this, I don't know that we would go through it very fast or would we? But then again, what am I talking about? How different is this from going through the butter? Like you make this compound butter and then you would have it sitting around.
Matthew:
Well, you make enough of it for the amount of cinnamon toast you want to make. It's one tablespoon per slice of bread. I made four slices and used half a stick of butter.
Molly:
Well, fair enough. She does two sticks of butter at a time obviously, you don't have to do that. But I guess even if I used one stick of butter, that's still maybe only eight, maybe nine pieces of cinnamon toast, we could go through that pretty fast.
Matthew:
How did you get to nine? Are you economizing by reducing the amount of butter by one eighth?
Molly:
No, I'm just Wondering if just one tablespoon of butter look like a lot on a toast?
Matthew:
No, it tastes like a lot, but it spreads pretty nicely across the surface of one piece of sandwich bread.
Molly:
I want this now, but you know what, I pretty much try to always have some baked good at home, because I really like eating them. Whether it's brownie.
Matthew:
That's a good reason to have them, I think.
Molly:
Last week, I can't remember if I told you, but I was in the grocery store and it was right after daylight saving time ended. This was a month ago by the time this episode airs. But anyway, it was 4:00 PM and it was dark outside. And I was like, "You know what this day needs, this day needs a box of brownies."
Matthew:
Yeah, absolutely.
Molly:
I bought some brownie mix and... Anyway, but since we finished off the brownies, I really need to make a cake or a banana bread or something. I'm feeling deprived, all this to say, I would rather eat that than cinnamon toast.
Matthew:
But it was very tasty. You do have to eat it right out of the oven, obviously, because by the time it cools down to room temperature, then it turns into a brick. But I would do it again, I'm sure. But it doesn't replace like thinking. "Hmm. I want some cinnamon toast." And then five minutes later, sprinkling some cinnamon sugar onto some toast. It feels more of a celebration than that. Not that's not a celebration, the old fashioned way. I know it's just different.
Molly:
No, but I think the thing is that, usually when we human beings eat toast, it's an easy spur of the moment thing. You put some butter and some jam on a piece of toasted bread. It's very fast and easy. Sounds like in your household and mine too, cinnamon toast has that same convenience factor.
Matthew:
Yeah, definitely.
Molly:
So this is like, if you're making cinnamon toast for dessert-
Matthew:
Yes. And an advantage of this method, is you can make a bunch at once, the recipe is for 16 slices, which you can fit onto a cookie sheet. You can't put 16 slices of bread into my two slot toaster.
Molly:
That's true. Whenever you can get together with your large family of ranchers, Matthew.
Matthew:
The family is large and each individual rancher is also large.
Molly:
And you're going to need to be able to feed them all cinnamon toasts. I'm glad that we found this recipe here during this COVID time. So that when we are all released from this purgatory, we can feast with all of our ranchers.
Matthew:
Yes. Right before the show, Laurie and I were talking about how this would be perfect for a cinnamon toast party.
Molly:
Oh, do they have those?
Matthew:
Why not?
Molly:
Okay. Let's have one.
Matthew:
Well, we'll invite all the ranchers, Jolly and other ones, the taciturn ranchers, I can't think of another.
Molly:
Little ranchers.
Matthew:
Little ranchers.
Molly:
Maybe a small family. Like the Stuart Little's family?
Matthew:
I'm glad you brought up Stuart Little, because last night I watched the 2011 Muppets movie. Have you seen this?
Molly:
I've never seen that one.
Matthew:
I hadn't either. I'd forgotten it existed. It stars Amy, Adams and Jason Segel, and a bunch of Muppets, such as Kermit.
Molly:
That sounds right up my alley.
Matthew:
The thing about the movie, I got this, as they did this so that people would talk about how wild this was. Is that in the movie, Jason Segel's brother is a Muppet, but he's not one of the Muppets. He's just a guy who happens to be a Muppet. And they never really comment on this.
Molly:
Wait, this is wild?
Matthew:
Isn't that wild?
Molly:
Sure. But-
Matthew:
Then they go and meet all the classic Muppets, but it's still never really acknowledged that-
Molly:
That he has a brother who is a Muppet. I think that's interesting.
Matthew:
I dozed off during part of the movie, so maybe they did acknowledge it, but I thought it was an interesting choice.
Molly:
I love that you watched a Muppet movie when your child is about to be 17 years old. So there's really no one in your house who would be like, "Hey, let's watch that nine-year-old Muppet movie."
Matthew:
I watched it with some people from work. It was a Netflix party.
Molly:
Oh, God. That's great. And somebody suggested a Muppet movie?
Matthew:
There was a vote, there were three possible movies to vote for. One was WarGames, which I voted for, one was this Muppet movie. And I don't remember what the third one was, and the Muppet movie won.
Molly:
I don't know if I've told you, Matthew, but this week I had to contact YNAB support again.
Matthew:
No, I heard about it.
Molly:
I've decided to really bother you indirectly.
Matthew:
Yeah. You choose to not waste my time by contacting support directly. But then you always tell whoever you speak to your support, like "Say hi to my friend Matthew." And they do.
Molly:
I totally do. The best part though, is I love seeing how excited they are when I'm like, "Hey, my best friend, Matthew works for the same company. Do you know him?" And they're always like, "Yes, he is the best."
Matthew:
Oh, that's so sweet.
Molly:
Yeah. Anyway, this is my new favorite thing, to contact YNAB support and talk about how much I like you.
Matthew:
You don't even have to, people will sometimes email support just to say like, "I love [inaudible 00:29:45], so great." And so you don't have to have a reason to contact support other than just saying that I'm great.
Molly:
Okay. I'll start doing it more often then, but I thought you might get mad.
Matthew:
YNAB is Okay. I guess, but Matthew[crosstalk 00:29:59].
Molly:
No, this most recent person I talked to said that you were a wonderful human being. By which she means not a Muppet. Matthew, before we talk a little bit more about cinnamon sugar and some cinnamon sugar ratios and stuff, I want to talk about my grandmother's recipe.
Matthew:
Okay. Oh, right. The one that you found in the recipe box.
Molly:
Yeah. I wrote about it on my blog, a million years ago. You use a Pepperidge farm type bread, a slightly more dense sandwich bread. And you cut it into triangles, and you generously coat it on both sides with melted butter, either brush it or dip it, and then you dredge it in cinnamon sugar, and then bake it until it's crisp. So these truly become rusks, they are saturated with butter.
Matthew:
Yeah, that sounds super rusky.
Molly:
It's super rusky, and you can keep them in a tin on the counter where they actually get even better with a couple of days age because they're pretty-
Matthew:
That's the point of rusks, is to make bread last, rusk longer,
Molly:
Rusk longer.
Matthew:
Yeah. These rusks really last.
Molly:
Yep. Anyway they're delicious. What I find interesting is... ReeDrummond's ratio has you, for every stick of butter use half a cup of sugar and then three teaspoons of cinnamon, which does not seem like a lot of cinnamon.
Matthew:
It turned out, I went slightly above her ratio of cinnamon to sugar, but just a little bit. And it was great. I went for one teaspoon of cinnamon to a quarter cup of sugar.
Molly:
Okay. Well, my grandmother's uses the same amount of sugar per stick of butter as ReeDrummond, but she uses a little bit more cinnamon. Maybe more like you. She used a half cup of sugar and two teaspoons of cinnamon. Anyway, we can maybe link to that recipe in the show notes. Do you mix your own cinnamon sugar, or have you ever bought premixed cinnamon sugar?
Matthew:
I have never bought premixed cinnamon sugar, but I think at least once we've been sent like a little jar as a freebie along with a Penzeys order. If someone's making commercial cinnamon sugar, it's probably not going to have enough cinnamon in it, because sugar is cheap and cinnamon is expensive. And that's what I found, it was fine.
Molly:
I find it tricky to figure out exactly how much cinnamon to sugar to do, because cinnamon is so harsh on its own.
Matthew:
So harsh.
Molly:
It's really harsh too.
Matthew:
It can really harsh one's mellow. Marshmallow.
Molly:
I did a little bit of research into the best ratio of cinnamon to sugar. And it is fascinating how different people feel about this.
Matthew:
Yeah. You're about to list one off that I'm going to find shocking.
Molly:
Okay. Apartment Therapy. The website Apartment Therapy says that the perfect ratio is a quarter cup granulated sugar to one tablespoon of cinnamon. So that's four parts sugar to one part cinnamon, versus-
Matthew:
That is soo much cinnamon.
Molly:
Soo much cinnamon.
Matthew:
Now, I do trust the folks, that the folks at the kitchen are buying good quality cinnamon, but cinnamon ray has a pretty wide range of intensities. We buy the Vietnamese fancy cinnamon from Penzeys, and it's a very intense cinnamon to the extent that they recommend reducing the amount of cinnamon in a recipe when you're using it.
Molly:
Doesn't it just annoy you. Why don't you just... I'm sorry, I'm going to be annoying here for a second.
Matthew:
No, no please. Go ahead.
Molly:
This makes me just want to buy grocery store cinnamon.
Matthew:
It's a hard take.
Molly:
So that I don't have to adjust the quantity.
Matthew:
Yeah. But you know what? We just buy the fancy cinnamon, and then use the original quantity. It's fine.
Molly:
Okay. Okay.
Matthew:
There's regular grocery stores cinnamon, and then there's true cinnamon. Because most of us are told cinnamon is-
Molly:
Is Cassie?
Matthew:
Yeah. And true cinnamon I think is milder than Cassie.
Molly:
Cool.
Matthew:
But I don't know what cinnamon they're using, but no matter what, one tablespoon of cinnamon to a quarter cup of sugar seems outrageous to me.
Molly:
It didn't seem outrageous to me when I first read it. But then thinking about my grandmother's ratio for her cinnamon toasts or ReeDrummond's ratio, which again is, one cup sugar to one tablespoon cinnamon. Because she used three... God, she wrote three teaspoons. Why didn't she just write a tablespoon?
Matthew:
I don't know.
Molly:
Anyway. So she does one cup sugar to one tablespoon cinnamon, whereas Apartment Therapy's website, the kitchen does a quarter cup to one tablespoon.
Matthew:
Yeah. When I mix it up, this is the first time I've ever measured making cinnamon sugar I think, because I was doing this compound butter method, and I just do it by color when I'm mixing it up, usually.
Molly:
I guess you can't really say how the color of her cinnamon sugar compared to your usual, because she mixed it into butter.
Matthew:
Right. Which will change the color. Oh, by the way, her recipe also called for vanilla extract, which I left out. Because I didn't want my cinnamon toast to tastes like vanilla.
Molly:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Okay. Fair enough.
Matthew:
Am sure it would have been fine, but I did sprinkle some salt.
Molly:
I was going to say, "Do you add a pinch of salt?"
Matthew:
Yeah, it's really good.
Molly:
And if so, do you put it in the mix or do you put it on top after you've gotten the toast already?
Matthew:
I sprinkled some Modern sea salt on top, after it came out of the oven.
Molly:
I love how precious you are about certain things.
Matthew:
Yeah. Me too.
Molly:
Also I think in our last episode...What was our last episode? Silverware? Afterward I felt a little bit vulnerable, because I had like admitted that I have fancy silverware. And so you were like, "Oh Molly, don't worry about it. I'm just as bad as you are." I just ordered a castle Lake kit from D'Artagnan.
Matthew:
It was delicious.
Molly:
Then I was like, "Matthew, why didn't you say it during the show? So that I would feel less like I was hanging out here in the breeze?"
Matthew:
Oh, I forgot that. I didn't say it during the show. So now you're bringing it up during this show.
Molly:
Yeah. I'm bringing it up, so that I can bring you down to my vulnerability level. Up to my vulnerable? Anyway. Yes.
Matthew:
People know me as the last real Ruskmann. This isn't going to change that.
Molly:
Okay. So you're a cassie man and a Ruskmann?
Matthew:
I'm a cassie man a Ruskmann and a salt sprinkler and a princess and the pea.
Molly:
All right. What am I?
Matthew:
I contain a lot of multitudes.
Molly:
You contain a large family of hungry ranchers.
Matthew:
Okay. I admit it. I'm the one who ate the family of hungry ranchers. If cannibalism is a crime, then fuck it, lock me up. Do you ever pause while you're eating a Jolly Rancher to think about what a funny name Jolly Rancher is, and then do you pause again to think about what a funny name, Jolly time popcorn is?
Molly:
Oh God. I hadn't thought about Jolly time popcorn in ever.
Matthew:
I think you bought Jolly time popcorn within the last couple of years.
Molly:
June did get some individually wrapped, but wrapped differently from the way they used to be Jolly Ranchers for Halloween.
Matthew:
How were they wrapped?
Molly:
They twisted it either end.
Matthew:
A classic candy twist.
Molly:
Yes. These were wrapped so that the ends were heat sealed. They were like-
Matthew:
Oh, I know what you mean.
Molly:
Yeah. It was like a flat pack with heat sealed ends at either ends. Like an individual bag of sour patch kids.
Matthew:
Yeah. But inside was it still hard and dry, but somehow still juicy?
Molly:
It was square and no longer rectangular. I know. I know. And she offered them to me and I said, "Yes." Because I have fond memories of eating green Apple Jolly Ranchers when I was in middle school. But then the more I thought about it, I was like, "Molly, wait, is this really what you want to eat? And I decided, no. And so I threw away her Jolly Ranchers,
Matthew:
Did you even eat one green Apple?
Molly:
I didn't even eat one. As she Knows, I have been eating a lot of her sour patch kids.
Matthew:
Okay. Fair.
Molly:
No one in this house is under the illusion that I am not a Candy Fiend. Don't worry. Everyone gets it.
Matthew:
Yeah. You're a Candy Fiend. I'm a Ruskman. But somehow we still get along.
Molly:
Matthew. So you have a question here. So you asked me if when I make cinnamon toast your way, so toasting the bread, then buttering it and putting on the cinnamon sugar. How much do I use? What is this part of it? Do I want the top to be wet?
Matthew:
Or dry? I knew I would have to explain this.
Molly:
Say what these are.
Matthew:
When you butter some toast and then sprinkle on cinnamon sugar, if you sprinkle on a small to medium amount, it'll get wet from the melted butter and turn brown.
Molly:
Yes.
Matthew:
But if you continue Sprinkling, you can add enough that there will be a dry layer on top, like a layer of dry beach Sand.
Molly:
I've never gone that far.
Matthew:
I have gone that far. Not every time, but it is satisfying to see just how much cinnamon sugar a piece of toast can absorb. It's a lot.
Molly:
How do you feel about the texture of it? Do you see any texture?
Matthew:
I don't mind the crunchy texture of granulated sugar. Do you?
Molly:
No, me neither. I was just thinking it's probably a quite different textural experience between wet cinnamon toast or dry cinnamon toast.
Matthew:
Yeah. I didn't do a side-by-side comparison. Because I spent so much time making fancy cinnamon toast, but I will for our next cinnamon toast episode.
Molly:
Oh, good.
Matthew:
By the way, we're about to fall into a Groundhog day cycle of doing cinnamon toast every week.
Molly:
Oh, we are?
Matthew:
Yeah.
Molly:
Oh no. Oh God.
Matthew:
In the movie Groundhog day spoiler alert, he never really finds out why he got Groundhog day, We are not going to either.
Molly:
Okay. I have never seen the movie Groundhog day.
Matthew:
Oh, it's good.
Molly:
Cool. Matthew, wait, when do you make cinnamon toast? Do you ever make it?
Matthew:
Today and yesterday. I'll make cinnamon toast occasionally, just if I'm in the mood for cinnamon toast, I would say is when I make it.
Molly:
Like how many times in a quarter?
Matthew:
How many times a quarter?
Molly:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Matthew:
I'd say about quarterly, once per quarter.
Molly:
God, I don't even remember the last time I made cinnamon toast. I should probably get on it. I feel like my poor kid is deprived. Oh, this seems terrible that she hasn't eaten enough cinnamon toast in her childhood.
Matthew:
It's not hard to make. I would recommend if your kid wanted some, if you knew you were going to do a podcast about it, those are some reasons you might make it.
Molly:
Okay. All right. But I do want a measurement.
Matthew:
It's okay. It's not too late because as I mentioned, we're going to be doing this topic for the next like 10,000 weeks.
Molly:
Our listeners are going to be really disappointed when we don't, Matthew.
Matthew:
Oh, I don't think they are, because they're not in the same time loop that we are.
Molly:
Oh, okay.
Matthew:
Or they're just going to be disappointed when we don't do that. It just turns out that this is just one of my damn shows.
Molly:
When it turns out that this is just a-
Matthew:
You're right. We have to truly commit to this, but what are you doing for the next 10,000 weeks? Because the answer is making and talking about cinnamon toast for 45 minutes.
Molly:
Okay. Do I get paid for it?
Matthew:
Yeah.
Molly:
Oh, then I'm in. I am in.
Matthew:
Right up until week three, when all of our listeners and advertisers are like, "Fuck this."
Molly:
Okay. Well, for the next three weeks I am in, and then I probably need to do something that's income generating.
Matthew:
Okay. Then we'll switch back to our next topic. The hot cross buns.
Molly:
Hot cross buns.
Matthew:
Carrots soup, and the hot cross buns.
Molly:
That's going to be on Easter though. We've got some time to kill until Easter.
Matthew:
Well just take a hiatus.
Molly:
Okay. All right, dude. We should wrap this thing up.
Matthew:
We really should.
Molly:
So that we can rest up before the next cinnamon toast episode.
Matthew:
That's right.
Molly:
And before we go, we wanted to give a shout out to another podcast actually called The Four Top. The Four Top is a James Beard and IACP award-winning food and beverage podcast, presented by OPB for NPR one.
Matthew:
And on every episode of The Four Top, which we've been on by the way, three thought leaders-
Molly:
That's like us.
Matthew:
Say a ruskmen, a Candy Fiend and somebody else, join your host Catherine Cole for a fast-moving round table discussion of hot button topics in food and beverage.
Molly:
Yep. You can listen now at thefourtop.org, Spotify, iTunes, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Matthew:
Yeah. And this is not a recipe swap or a celebrity chef show. It is a lively discussion of real timely issues in the world of food.
Molly:
Yep. And they have panelists on there, from The New Yorker and The Atlantic and Food & Wine and us.
Matthew:
And spilled milk, all of the most respected sources in the world of food and drink. And they dig into pop cultural phenomenon, a secret menu items and juice cleanses and real issues like fair wages, climate change, food waste, and globalization.
Molly:
Yep. So check it out, check out their knowledgeable opinionated round table of experts.
Matthew:
The Four Top, savor the conversation. And you can find us at spill.podcast.com and on Reddit at reddit.com/r/everythingspilledmilk where the conversation is genuinely picking up. And I'm so excited.
Molly:
I have only wound up on Reddit a couple times when I've been Googling reviews of dog food or other random things. But I'm really pleased to hear that our Reddit is doing so well.
Matthew:
Yeah. It's good people being nice and talking about our show. I love it so far.
Molly:
I love good people being good people.
Matthew:
Yep.
Molly:
Are there any Ruskman in there or Candy Fiends?
Matthew:
The last true Ruskman hangs out there.
Molly:
Shout out to all my Candy Fiends.
Matthew:
You should get on there, make it account, call yourself Candy Fiend, which is probably already taken. So call yourself Candy Fiend 69420.
Molly:
I'm totally going to do it right now.
Matthew:
You should do it right now.
Molly:
Candy Fiend 69420 come find me.
Matthew:
That may also be taken, but we're going to find out. Yes. Go to Reddit and sign up his Candy Fiend 69420, and start posting on the Spilled Milk Reddit, our listeners are going to love that.
Molly:
But not until after this episode airs.
Matthew:
Well, we reserve the name now and then make a note on December 3rd to join in and say like, "What's up everybody?"
Molly:
I'm making a note to myself, right now.
Matthew:
And until next time. We can't wait for the day, until we can all get together for some... what did we call it?
Molly:
A cinnamon toast party.
Matthew:
I was going to say princess in the peaing, but yeah, it's one of our classic cinema toast parties, am Matthew Amster-Burton.
Molly:
I'm Molly Weisenberger.