448: Salad Rolls

Matthew Amster-Burton 0:00

We are doing a book event. It is a book launch event for Molly's new book, the fixed stars. And it is on August 6,

Molly 0:07

that's a week from is that a week from today, a week from tomorrow, something like that. Something like that this event that we're doing together is through book larder. It's going to be on zoom. And you can register at book larder. com they've got a handy dandy event listing for it. So go register, Matthew, and I will I was about to say that we'll try to keep our spilled milk dumbness to a dull roar. But let's not

Matthew Amster-Burton 0:33

Yeah, no, let's let's just let our let our dumb flag fly. Yeah. But we'll be talking about Molly's new book, which you should have already pre ordered by now. But if you haven't, it's the fixed stars. And you can pre order it wherever you get books.

Molly 0:44

Yeah, it'll be out next week, August 4, and yeah, and then we'll see you August sixth. online through book order

Matthew Amster-Burton 0:50

book larder.com. I'm Matthew.

Molly 0:57

And I'm Molly.

Matthew Amster-Burton 0:58

And this is spilled milk this year where we cook something delicious. Eat it all, and you can't have any.

Molly 1:02

Today we are talking about summer rolls, which you might also know as fresh rolls, salad rolls, or no, we're about you're about to have to listen to me work on my pronunciation here. But guy good guy, guy goon.

Matthew Amster-Burton 1:22

I I'm well, okay. Right. We so this is this is a Vietnamese food. Although we're going to talk about some other national versions. And to help us out. I think we should bring in an expert on the topic.

Molly 1:34

Yeah, I think that first we'll get her to help me with my pronunciation. Okay, so

Matthew Amster-Burton 1:38

why don't we bring in cookbook author Andrea and when to talk about these.

Molly 1:44

Andrea is great. I remember first hearing her name. Gosh, back in the early days of blogging for me, I think first book came out in 2006. Right. We'll be talking about it a bit. Yeah. And

Matthew Amster-Burton 1:57

I think her blog proceeded that Viet world kitchen calm.

Molly 2:00

Yeah, she's the person I think of when it comes to Vietnamese cooking. So I'm really glad we were able to get her on the show today.

Matthew Amster-Burton 2:06

Let's see if we can get her on the show. We are joined by Andrew Edwin James Beard award winning author of Vietnamese food any day, the bunbee handbook into the Vietnamese kitchen, which was published in 2006. And was the first comprehensive full color cookbook on Vietnamese food in English. She wrote the full cookbook and many other great cookbooks. Andrea, thank you so much for joining us on spilled milk.

Unknown Speaker 2:30

Oh, my pleasure, you guys. Thanks for inviting me.

Matthew Amster-Burton 2:32

Yes, we wanted to have you on because a couple of weeks ago, we did an episode on crispy spring rolls. And we said we are going to do a follow up talking about unframed spring rolls, which go by many different names, both in English and many other languages. And volley. and I both felt like we don't know enough about this topic to really do it justice on our own. Who do we know who might be able to help? And you were the very first person we thought

Unknown Speaker 2:58

it because of like this idea of roll your own? I don't know, you know?

Matthew Amster-Burton 3:04

I mean, we do do a lot of that in Seattle.

Molly 3:06

Yeah, it's true. It's true. No, but I feel like it's so rare that anything actually works out these days. So we're thrilled that we thought of you and that you were actually able to join us on the podcast. So thanks.

Unknown Speaker 3:21

You know, I have a lot of flexibility in my time these days. Right.

Molly 3:25

And we are thrilled to make the most of that flexibility. So thank you. Yeah, so I have to say that I was texting with Matthew yesterday about this episode. And I told him that I was watching YouTube videos on how to properly pronounce these roles, summer roles, fresh roles, whatever. We're going to call them how to properly pronounce them in Vietnamese. Can you help me please?

Unknown Speaker 3:51

Alright. So the word role, or you can just call them roll is gone. Gone,

Matthew Amster-Burton 3:59

gone, gone. Gone. So

Unknown Speaker 4:00

there's this upward intonation on the accent so I was go gone. And that means to roll like a verb or a roll. And then guy means a salad. And so the ubiquitous role in a sheaf of rice paper that's, you know, contains shrimp and pork and let us and herbs and noodles. That is the quintessential guy. Good

Matthew Amster-Burton 4:25

guy corn.

Unknown Speaker 4:26

Very good guy gone.

Matthew Amster-Burton 4:28

So gone.

Unknown Speaker 4:29

Yeah. So in the word guy, goi there's this little kind of question mark. So always think of it like, Oh, I'm gonna ask a question. It's an interrogative. So guy, and then good. It's like a sharp upward intonation guy. Good.

Molly 4:45

Okay, and is that is that upward intonation? Is that what the accent over? Oh, yes. indicates okay. So. Oh,

Unknown Speaker 4:56

upward accent mark. And so that's a very sharp Word intonation, whereas the question mark is is kind of longer interrogative. Okay, anyway those are gaekwad and literally they translate into salad roles so salad gone meaning role so that's what you know people get you know when they go to a lot of Vietnamese restaurants you can order them at the side for with your fall you can pick them up wrapped up, you know on a little plastic tray or paper tray at a Vietnamese Dahlia bakery.

Matthew Amster-Burton 5:29

Okay, well, I know you have not tried to pronounce the word yet.

Molly 5:33

Okay. Okay. So, guy got I'm having trouble with the I'm having trouble really putting myself into it here. Okay, guy, cool. Guy cool. Guy. Like, Kuhn. No, I'm still not doing the upward intonation.

Unknown Speaker 5:51

Oh, man.

Molly 5:52

They're totally laughing at me. I'm blushing so hard. I need to be you know, I want to I want you guys to leave my closet so I can practice alone in here. That's what closets are for practicing new languages. Okay. Guy, cool. Guy. Good guy. Good.

Unknown Speaker 6:12

Guy. One guy. Yeah, I just terrible. Okay, you know what, cuz Matthew spent a lot of time in Japan. He's coming out and I'm like, Yeah,

Matthew Amster-Burton 6:21

like ready to nerd out on language. How many tones are there in Vietnamese?

Unknown Speaker 6:26

Oh my god. There's I think like seven of them and then they can be combined. Oh, yeah. I

Matthew Amster-Burton 6:31

have never learned a tonal language. And it's like on my bucket list. So so maybe we're gonna be in touch about this again.

Unknown Speaker 6:39

You know, you just say guy Quan, you're gonna be good to go. You got

Molly 6:44

the C in the second word is kind of a like a G sound a little bit? Guy. goon?

Unknown Speaker 6:49

Correct. Okay, you're running?

Matthew Amster-Burton 6:53

Oh, gosh,

Molly 6:54

you are really too kind. Oh, laughing over there.

Matthew Amster-Burton 6:59

So Andrea, do you think summer rolls is a good translation of these in English? What do you like to call them in English if you have to, because they go by so many names like fresh rolls, cold rolls, spring rolls, Crystal rolls, salad rolls.

Unknown Speaker 7:14

I would do a direct translation of salad rolls. I know that sounds unsexy. I don't know who came up with the term summer rolls versus spring roll them year round. Not just a summer thing. And spring roll comes from the Chinese term for like Shanghai spring rolls when they're eating during the Spring Festival as a traditional food because the Chinese fried spring rolls. They kind of look like gold bars.

Matthew Amster-Burton 7:40

Yes.

Unknown Speaker 7:41

So something but then part of the problem is when people started producing and selling rice paper, they're like, oh, we're just gonna call it spring roll wrapper. Yeah. So that really kind of set things off. And you know when they're unframed I don't know where freshmen because it's it mean like if unfresh rolls,

Matthew Amster-Burton 8:02

right? Yeah, as opposed to what right?

Unknown Speaker 8:04

Right. like fried unfresh rolls. I don't understand that either. And I you know, I translate them in my work as salad rolls, or just as rolls but I would just prefer if people just started calling them like gakuen Yeah, like, you know, like taco.

Matthew Amster-Burton 8:20

Yeah, certainly fair. Yeah, totally

Molly 8:21

fair. Wait a minute. It occurs to me that we have not done Memory Lane, which is time segment that we always do at the beach. I feel like calling it a segment makes it sound like it's more standard. But anyway, hold on. We need to walk down memory lane with guy Khun cheese, guys.

Unknown Speaker 8:43

I should This is embarrassing.

Molly 8:46

Oh, okay. All right, Who wants to go first?

Matthew Amster-Burton 8:50

I definitely ate these in Vietnamese restaurants in Portland, Oregon. When I was a kid, I was texting with my mom yesterday seeing if we could remember the name of the Vietnamese restaurant that we went to in Portland when I was a kid and we could not come up with it. You know, we would get food we would get salad rolls Geico and, and all kinds of other good stuff. But I remember I remember these as being something that really stood out to me as like something something different that was not really like anything I was getting at another restaurant. And I was never a kid who was afraid of vegetables. And so I really liked these and I loved dipping them because like dipping sauces are always great. So Matthew, wait, I know that you are a little bit condiment phobic, but you were fine with the dipping sauce for guy goon I was really only ever phobic of like sweet American condiments and like anything creamy and and that was not the kind of dipping sauce that would come with the guy goon so I was okay with it.

Molly 9:44

Okay. Andrea, tell us your memory lane.

Unknown Speaker 9:46

Well, it's loaded with a roll, right?

Matthew Amster-Burton 9:50

This can be the whole show. That's fine.

Unknown Speaker 9:52

And now I mean, like we you know, we would just set out the fixings for these roles and then people would just you know, On our family, we just sit down and we would just make them and see who could roll like the prettiest ones who could like place the shrimp just right so that they have that little bling sexiness, you know,

Molly 10:11

can I ask a question? Yeah, so you dip the the rice paper in hot water right to soften it

Unknown Speaker 10:19

originally. So like rice paper was originally made with just rice and water and salt and it was thick and it took forever to like soften. But nowadays you know, we use I use like warm waters, almost like bathtub temperature water. And there are so many different kinds of rice papers now sold in America as well as in Vietnam. So sometimes they like just need a little if the stuff in Vietnam sometimes like tissue Thin Man, and barely needs any water, any water at all. But yeah, you just slide it into warm water nowadays, rotate it like a little you know, desk, and then put it down and then wait for it to get tacky. And then it's ready to roll.

Molly 10:59

And so would your family in putting out all these ingredients? What what what did you have set out for dipping the rice paper to soften it

Unknown Speaker 11:09

to dip the rice paper, we would set out these large, almost like super large noodle soup bowls, if you can imagine or maybe a large round casserole dish that my mom would have gotten at a yard sale or my dad picked it up at a thrift shop. And then we would fill it with with water and it originally like you know I'm talking back in the 70s and early 80s we'd have like a kettle of hot water going on. And the stove and then you'd have to like fill up the dipping vessel and then someone you know, and then it would cool down because we're using the old school rice papers, which was the rose brand. So for any of the Vietnamese food geeks out there, it's like always get the rose brand. Some would then run back into the day the kitchen, get the kettle water, pour it in, and it's like scalding hardware. Like it was really like a funny little you know, circus almost of making these rolls. But the point of doing it at the table is that it's conversational food, and you're making discoveries and you're sharing and you know, you you roll your own and you eat what you make. And sometimes they explode because you're like, yeah, that's stuffing way too much in there. And they bust open. And you know, we still do that to this day, my parents will compete to see who has like the newest rolling technique. Even though they're in their 80s they still you know, they have this sort of pride and making like cool rolls that don't you know, like they don't drip out one end, but there's still like you can stuff more things in there. So people need to think that there is like there's no hard and fast rule about it. But Molly, as you ask, there is like a certain technique about dipping the rice paper into the water.

Unknown Speaker 12:48

Okay, yeah,

Matthew Amster-Burton 12:48

Molly, how about your memory lane?

Molly 12:50

Oh, so my memory lane. So I grew up in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. There were a lot of strip malls in Oklahoma City in the same strip mall as our main grocery store. Albertsons, which was originally scaggs alpha beta. Actually, that's what it was called. When I was a kid. There was a really large restaurant called Lido, it was large enough that I remember even when it was quite full of people, it was only like half full. Anyway, it was huge. That I think is the first place that I ever had Vietnamese food at all. We went there a lot when I was in high school, I think it may be opened when I was in my early teens. My family loved it. And we would always order guy goon. Yeah, that was that was Vietnamese food to me as a child. And then when I went off to college in the late 90s, I was in the Bay Area. And I remember, I used to always pick up the San Francisco Chronicle food section on Wednesdays. And I remember tearing out like a basic tutorial around that time of how to make fresh rolls, how to make like, knock Tom, is it a knock Tom dipping sauce and went through a little period when I was freshly out of college of thinking that it would be very fun to make these at home. But I was living by myself. And I feel like it's one of those things where you make all these ingredients and you know, you get your your hot bowl of water out. And I don't know, it wasn't very fun to make by myself. I think I only made them once.

Unknown Speaker 14:26

Yeah, it's not it's a group thing, because you can't just make one or two

Molly 14:30

because it feels pointless, right?

Unknown Speaker 14:32

Like I gotta keep going. So that's where you know, the great for parties

Molly 14:36

will so actually I have a question about them for party. So okay, so let's say you make all of these, when they dry out, they start to split, right? So if you are serving these at a party or you make a whole bunch of them ahead of time, how do you keep them like looking nice and having a nice texture while they're sitting out waiting to be eaten?

Unknown Speaker 14:58

Yeah, so they'll split up into They'll dry up. So one thing that and then they stick together too. That's the other thing.

Matthew Amster-Burton 15:05

I have definitely noticed this,

Unknown Speaker 15:06

what you can do, you can just arrange them on a on your platter and almost like a flower petal shape. So they're just touching at the little corners at the at the ends, for example, that's my way of doing it. Or if you're really trying to put together a bunch of them tight on a platter, you can theoretically weave a piece of plastic wrap, undulating between all of them. So that Okay, and then you had cover the whole platter with plastic wrap, and that can sit for, you know, I'd say three to four hours. Okay, you know, we're on the West Coast with you know, moderate temperatures. So you can keep that stuff out. Because the The ingredients are all cooked. And then when you're ready to rip off the plastic wrap and let your guests go at them. But tell them about the plastic wrap that's separating? Sure.

Matthew Amster-Burton 15:58

Don't bite into it. Right.

Molly 16:00

So when you were growing up and your family was still in Vietnam, were there occasions when you made them for like a family event like that? Or was it always something where you made your own and ate your own sitting around the table, we do both?

Unknown Speaker 16:16

When I was like six and so like in Vietnam, you can get these roles, you can get one like on a street down the street, for example, from a street vendor, and they'll just like roll it right there. And there's this one called Baba, which is from a Chinese popiah roll that as we're talking about roles served in like Singapore. So popiah in Singapore is wrapped in a sheath of very thin weak base wrapper, almost like a super duper thin flour tortilla or a very thin, mushy wrapper, and has poisoned sauce and stuff. And so those are kind of role that you can totally get on the street. And you'd make you know, and rice paper sold, you know, every single market in Vietnam. And so you know, people just use them all the time. I mean, it's a pre cooked food that you have to rehydrate.

Matthew Amster-Burton 17:09

So Andrea, when you when you make these with your family or when you were growing up, like what was the range of ingredients that you would have on the table for filling them? And is everyone like use all of the ingredients every time or do you or do you like choose the subset that you want for your particular role?

Unknown Speaker 17:24

Well, you can do the classic like one with the poached shrimp and pork and herbs and noodles. You can also just roll whatever you want. So that may be you know, grilled meats in the rice paper roll and if you've got the fixings out there, you can pick and choose, you know, maybe you want less noodle, more lettuce, you can pick different kinds of herbs too. One of the things that I love to do during the summer is grill like a whole fish, you know, whether it's, you know, a whole bass or trout, and then set up the noodles and herbs and stuff, rice paper and go at it in into the kitchen, you can roll up like there are these little beef patties that have or their curry scented leaf beef patties that you can serve on top of a rice noodle bowl, but you can also like wrap it up, break it up and wrap it in rice paper too. So there are things yeah.

Matthew Amster-Burton 18:18

Oh, wow, that sounds really good.

Molly 18:19

I always think of fresh herbs in there. And you mentioned that do you feel like that? Is there any one thing that you think of as an essential ingredient like do you have to have fresh herbs or

Unknown Speaker 18:29

for the roles you want all your ingredients to be soft and so pliable and life so that you got to roll it up? You got to manipulate it and you know if you're, if you're worried about the paper busting, you don't want sharp objects in there. So you know, it's been fair.

Matthew Amster-Burton 18:44

Yeah, right, right.

Unknown Speaker 18:47

So you want if you're gonna have you know, the herbs are perfect for accentuating you know, these pops of flavor pungency spiciness. So I do need to have the herbs and people don't go as simple as like mint cilantro. People assume that you have to have the Thai basil But no, it's Thai basil. It's not it's not Vietnamese basil. I mean, that's just you know, that's it. That's one herb option. You can use Italian basil, purple basil, you put a rubella in there, you put microgreens in there she so is wonderful. The nice version of she so that's Garnet colored on one side and green on the other colpito and you can get it very easily in the ID in Seattle and other Vietnamese and Chinese market. So really play with herbs especially this time of the year when there's so much

Matthew Amster-Burton 19:36

out there. Whoa, we just started like my, my wife and kid just went to the the plant store and came back with a bunch of of herbs starts and so we have like a real herb garden on our balcony for the first time possibly ever. And so like I'm gonna be making these within the next week for sure. And just like grabbing all the herbs I can

Molly 19:56

Matthew. I know you and I have both gotten Fresh rolls from green leaf here in Seattle. And they have Andrea, this is red, they've gone rogue. They have something crunchy in there. It's like it's hidden amongst all the other things, but there's like a shard of like rolled up Is it like fried rice paper that in the middle, it's a very modern things.

Unknown Speaker 20:22

So nowadays, like you some people wrap the fried rolls, the crispy fried like we call them dazzle Imperial rolls that are traditionally rolled up in rice paper, they take a shortcut and they'll write, roll it up in a flower base spring roll wrapper or Lumia wrapper. They're the same type of app. Okay, so a restaurant will do that, because those rolls will fry up in a flash, and they hold their Christmas. So they have those wrappers around, right. So they just roll them up into a little jelly roll, almost like a very thin, you know, cigar cigarillo and then they fry it up and they've gotten sitting there, and then they'll add that to their rice paper roll. So gluten free people, please be aware. But you know, it adds this little crunchy pop of texture and richness in the center of the roll. So it's fun. That is okay,

Matthew Amster-Burton 21:14

yeah, I totally get that that's a bit of a cheat at the same time. Sometimes when my family goes to that restaurant, my mom especially will ask Could you just like bring us a few extra of like the crispy rolls that go in the middle and just like eat them like breadsticks?

Molly 21:28

That is great. Long live, Judy amster Aha.

Matthew Amster-Burton 21:33

So let's let's talk about the dipping sauce. Like I feel like I've had a number of different dipping sauces served alongside these like sweet chili sauce. I think like a fermented soy bean like me so like sauce, which I know would not be called me. So in Vietnamese noac jam peanut sauce. Also.

Molly 21:51

peanut sauce. Yeah.

Matthew Amster-Burton 21:52

What What do you think of Andrea is like the most classic dipping sauce and like what what do you think sauces Do you like with your guide goon

Unknown Speaker 21:59

it boils down to like two sauces what the classic guy going with the shrimp and the pork and the herbs and noodles and lettuce. I love a bean fermented bean sauce. So that is classically called boom and belong to you O n g refers to fermented bean sauce that can have coconut milk in there and peanuts in their ground up. And it's sweet, a little spicy little edge of tartness. And so that's sort of the miso ish stuff. But but like these days, like a lot of people use hoisin sauce as a base. But that goes really really well with the rolls.

Molly 22:40

Do you have a recipe for that in one of your books for that dipping sauce?

Unknown Speaker 22:44

Yes. So I have two versions. There's a version in into the Vietnamese kitchen, my first book, and then in the fall cookbook, since Gakuin and fall are such like BFF. So then there's also a recipe in there for the sauce. And it's a and there's there's garlic in there. It's really lovely. I mean, you can look that thing out of the bowl. Yeah. And then look down. You know, the ubiquitous fish sauce. dipping sauce is also great if you want something lighter, but it depends on what is inside the roll. And so you know, if you're going for lighter fare, they say that say like, I made rolls recently with shrimp and green mango.

Matthew Amster-Burton 23:23

I love green mango. That sounds so good.

Unknown Speaker 23:25

Right? And so instead of the pork, you replace it with green mango, and the bean sauce. That to him was just a little bit too heavy.

Matthew Amster-Burton 23:34

But the nuke gem was like who it was light and refreshing. That sounds so good. I wonder if I can get my hands on a green mango in the next few days. I bet I can.

Molly 23:44

I think you can. Yeah, should we I know we've touched on we've touched on popiah and and sort of other kind of versions of roles should we talk about about anything else in the area of regional roles?

Matthew Amster-Burton 23:59

Yeah, Andrea, I don't know if you're any more familiar with like the like the Indonesian and Filipino and fried rolls than I am which is not very much but there's like a whole world of untried, usually wheat based rapper spring rolls that are incredibly delicious.

Unknown Speaker 24:16

Yeah, I've said I've mostly had. I've had more Filipino friends and Indonesian friends. So I've had like the what they call like ration, Olympia. Sometimes I've seen that at lumpiang. Saudi Waa, there are vegetables in there and then a sauce that is sometimes kind of soy sauce base but it's also kind of filled in with almost like a rule base kind of sauce. So it's a little bit heavy ish, but it clings to the wrapper very nicely. And there's lettuce in there. There's vegetables sometimes there's a little meat and they're really fun to eat and they're you know departure from the the regular fried crispy limpia but they're more delicate I have to say that so they're the kind of thing that my parents friends would make. And then shut them out for us. And we'd be like, wait.

Matthew Amster-Burton 25:13

Yeah, I've had I had the Indonesian ones a few times they limpia Semarang and those that have like, usually have bamboo shoots and egg and dried shrimp and then maybe another protein ingredient optionally very different from the Vietnamese style, but also very delicious.

Unknown Speaker 25:31

Yeah, you know, as soon as you change that wrapper from wheat to rice paper, it's a different experience, because the rice paper is slightly tangy. And it's gotten a Jew to it at that. Yeah. And and so textually it adds, you know, a different experience, eating experience, but then flavor wise if you know, and again, it depends on the rice paper, rice paper, and we have another different conversation about rice paper, but like the stuff that has rice in it along with tapioca, we'll have a flavor that that is a little bit more tangy because there has likely been some fermentation in the batter to make it work well and cook up nicely. They're using like all tapioca man. You know, the rice paper is very clear, and very thin. But it's but it's practically flavorless. In my opinion,

Molly 26:22

do you have specific brands that you you're able to find regularly where you are that you might recommend,

Unknown Speaker 26:30

I am so happy you asked. Because I'm I'm a three ladies fan. And so the three ladies refer to a line of rice products, whether it's you know, Jasmine rice, sticky rice, rice paper rice noodles, that I think is very consistent. There are three women on the the packaging, and they're dressed in Southeast Asian traditional outfits. And the rice paper is really great. And you can buy it online, you can buy it at most Southeast Asian grocery stores and Chinese grocery stores and also like h Mart, which is Korean owned, and it's a little bit thicker. And it will hold up over time. And it's very, it's much easier to work with than some of the other brands. But there are Vietnamese people and restaurant tours who love like this bamboo brand. But that's really sold at more hardcore Vietnamese markets. But in the mainland, I'm like a three ladies girl. Great.

Molly 27:30

Oh my gosh, I'm so glad to know about this. And I imagine I mean, the shelf life of this stuff is really long, too. So you get a pack of rice paper wrappers and you're set for a bit which is really nice in these days when we are all you know, stuck at home and trying to keep our pantry stocked.

Matthew Amster-Burton 27:47

I mean, depends how big your family is. That's true.

Unknown Speaker 27:50

Yeah. Think of it as a pasta the dry. Yeah, yeah, I can keep dry pasta, you can keep it I admit, I have a lot of different kinds that I've collected in my travels. And they're hidden in various parts of my home. And

Molly 28:03

was like fun. Do you have like, yeah, like rice paper hunts?

Unknown Speaker 28:09

Yeah, in my kitchen cupboards in my closet. You know, I have this pantry closet thing in the hallway. And they keep literally forever. I don't know if you could if you buried me and you brought you in and buried me on from now you'd probably still find the rice paper kind of thing.

Molly 28:26

I look forward to the the Pompei version of your home.

Matthew Amster-Burton 28:29

Yeah,

Molly 28:30

it's gonna be so exciting seeing all the different brands of rice paper that you had before your home was was buried.

Matthew Amster-Burton 28:38

Yeah, one of the most delicious archeological digs of the future.

Unknown Speaker 28:42

Yeah, bottles of fish sauce.

Matthew Amster-Burton 28:44

Yeah, of course.

Molly 28:45

We are all going to eat so well at the archeological dig of your house.

Matthew Amster-Burton 28:50

I mean, not us personally. But some people okay, anything else that we missed? The only thing I wanted to point out is that like one of the most common ingredients in in guy goon is is rice vermicelli and so you really you've got like rice noodles on the outside and on the inside which I love the the the you know very slight textural and flavor contrast of those working together.

Unknown Speaker 29:16

Yeah, so so the rice noodles the called boon Vu n with an upward accent Mark kind of like good. So boom. They are pretty much like the ones used and the rolls are like the size of an angel hair pasta. Yeah, they're, they're awkwardly translated as a vermicelli, which is technically smaller when you take a look at pasta sizes. But you know, the noodles themselves convey flavor really well. They also like kind of, they're because they're soft and long. They kind of you know, they roll up nicely. And they add a certain amount of loft to the role so that you get something that's kind of big. Now if you're like low carbon it you could use say like Iceberg lettuce. That's like Finley sliced finely sliced to give you that same and there's a particular role made with like pork skin that has like shredded lettuce so you know you want again if you're doing substance stuff think of different things that may be long and tender so that you can manipulate of course the noodles as you say Matthew add a certain flavor to so if you want to back off noodles just use a little less

Matthew Amster-Burton 30:25

yeah and I love that texture of like biting across a bunch of parallel noodles very satisfying alright Is there anything anything we missed that anyone thinks we should talk about?

Unknown Speaker 30:35

I think you got we've covered everything. Oh when he What is it you know breakfast lunch or dinner?

Matthew Amster-Burton 30:40

Yeah, or just like like is it always like as a side dish with a meal or a snack or

Unknown Speaker 30:47

I think of it as a snack or an appetizer but going back to you know like doing a roll from like you know grilled foods that yet people may have been cooking off in the summertime that's a meal that's a one dish meal from a great for brunch lunch or dinner and then toss die like you You know, you can go with the fish sauce dipping sauce. You can go with a bean bass sauce. That's that's voice inish sweet chili sauce sometimes too. That's great for more like fried stuff. There. Is this like tamarind sauce is also wonderful. Yes, yeah. So there are a lot of different kinds of ways that you can go with these rolls. So I also encourage people to play with it because it's one of the gateway foods there are three gateway foods to Vietnamese to love and Vietnamese food and cooking so it's been me sandwiches fall and got gone. So those three things man, they are infinitely customizable. They are the quintessential habit your way food, so you know, encourage people to just like really have fun with them.

Matthew Amster-Burton 31:48

Excellent. Well, we have done a funny episode, and I don't have we done a full episode. I'm pretty certain we have not I don't think we have so we definitely talked a lot about Andrea's bunmi handbook on the bunmi episode. We would love to have you back to talk for some time.

Unknown Speaker 32:04

I would love to slurp it up with you guys. Okay,

Matthew Amster-Burton 32:06

all right, and we will post links to to Andrea's books and to where you can order the three ladies rice paper in the show notes and Android win. Thank you so much for being on spilled milk.

Unknown Speaker 32:18

Thank you, Molly and Matthew. My pleasure.

Molly 32:23

Thank you again to Andrea for joining us today I learned so much and I'm excited to go look for three sisters brand of rice paper and

Matthew Amster-Burton 32:31

I'm gonna go I'm gonna try and meet three sisters. I'm gonna practice my pronunciation one thing that just we kind of just let's sail by and didn't didn't comment on was that Andrea described the ingredients that you want to put into your into your fresh rolls, or, or guy going as live, which I don't think I've ever heard used to describe food before and is now one of my favorite things I've ever heard.

Molly 32:52

Ah, that's so sexy. Yes, yeah, there were so many things that I had not really thought about. I mean, obviously texture is so important in these. But the idea you know that you want the filling to be soft against sort of the snap of the rice paper but that at the same time you want it to have loft. That was the word she used when talking about the rice noodles inside. Anyway, just

Matthew Amster-Burton 33:18

only get the feeling that Andrea is much better at describing food than we are I kind of do like well we just like pretty much our show because it's like eating a chip and then saying perfectly engineered food product a bunch of times

Molly 33:31

you make us sound like robots which maybe we are

Matthew Amster-Burton 33:34

we are chip eating robots like why did someone design a robot just to eat chips? I don't know

Molly 33:40

what else to do, you know?

Matthew Amster-Burton 33:42

Yeah, that's true. I mean, it's better than a killer robot. Like you know, if you have the choice between making like some sort of war robot or a chip robot make a chip robot

Molly 33:51

make a chip robot always the other day? A story. Okay, hold on. If you're gonna really make a robot I would like you to make a robot that rolls salad rolls for me.

Matthew Amster-Burton 34:00

But like, then you you miss out on the tactile experience.

Molly 34:04

That's true.

Matthew Amster-Burton 34:05

Like, do you want to touch something live?

Molly 34:07

Once I do? I actually I've got to sign off right now I want to go touch something live. Now. What I really wanted to ask her when she was talking about her parents competing, like you know over was trolling technique. What I really wanted to ask her is how old is like a kid when they are able to start rolling their own?

Matthew Amster-Burton 34:31

Oh, that is a good question.

Molly 34:33

Cuz I imagine that like probably a three year old growing up around a Vietnamese table is way better at rolling these things than I am. Oh, yes, but

Matthew Amster-Burton 34:46

only better. I want to see I'm gonna see like a kid just learning to roll them it's got like, just like it's looking so proud and holding this just like busted ass. Guy. Good. Be adorable. The other day I was I was sitting and working at the table here, eating some Lay's barbeque chips. Then when I got up there was one Lay's barbecue chip right in the middle of the pillow that I sit on. When I'm sitting at the table. You laid a chip I laid a chip Yes, but like and so of course he got grease all over the pillowcase, but like it was there wasn't any grease on like on my butt. So I still not totally sure what happened like like, why for the show, Laurie pointed out that I couldn't have actually sat on the chip it must have fallen as I was getting out because otherwise it would have been crushed and it was not crushed. And then I refer to her as the world's greatest potato chip parenthesis.

Molly 35:41

I love how you guys are spending your time together. This is this is really beautiful. Um, last night I somehow without knowing it sat in some chocolate really glad that I you know wasn't out anywhere because well you can imagine what it looks like.

Matthew Amster-Burton 35:56

Yeah, we've just been spending our time sitting on things. Yeah, I my case, I didn't sit on the chip, but almost

Molly 36:02

Yeah, anyway, but yeah, don't sit on a salad roll. Although actually if you've got enough rice noodles in it, it's gonna have a nice amount of loft maybe like a medium firm pillow. Yana field really nice. So maybe to sit on it.

Matthew Amster-Burton 36:16

What firmness of pillow do you like? Oh firm firm pillow even extra firm?

Molly 36:20

No, no, I don't like my pillows that firm. I'm kind of a solidly medium person because I feel like if the pillow is slightly not firm enough, I can always kind of ball it up to make it firm enough. Yeah. On firm a pillow.

Matthew Amster-Burton 36:33

That's true. Okay, so every we finish every show with some of Molly's homespun advice, and this week it's you can't unfirm a pillow. You can find us online at spilled dog podcast calm and facebook.com slash build not podcast in the show notes to the episode, which you can see in your podcast player. We will post links to where you can buy some of Andrew edwins books and where you can buy us three sisters three ladies, three late three ladies rice rice paper three

Molly 37:01

sisters, that would be beans, rice and corn. Rice sisters,

Matthew Amster-Burton 37:05

right? Yeah, right

Molly 37:06

different cuisine.

Matthew Amster-Burton 37:08

Our producer is Abby sercotel. You can find us on Instagram at spilled milk podcast.

Molly 37:12

You can find some herbs on Matthew's balcony.

Matthew Amster-Burton 37:14

And until next time, thank you for listening to spilled milk coming to you live since 2010.

Molly 37:21

Nice wine Matthew. I'm Molly weissenberg.

Matthew Amster-Burton 37:24

And I'm Matthew Amster-Burton.

Molly 37:31

I'm just gonna stay in here forever. It's really it's like padded cell kind of vibe. It's really soothing.