423: Miso

Unknown Speaker 0:04

I'm Matthew and I'm Molly and this is spilled milk, the show where we cook something delicious. Eat it all and you can't have any today we are talking about me so and in fact, we are drinking miso soup right now I had a mouthful as well as some scallion when you start off with a mouthful of

Unknown Speaker 0:19

me so Molly.

Molly 0:21

Anyway, Matthew, let's go down memory lane. Okay. I definitely remember miso soup from when I was a kid. I don't think we went to a lot of in Japanese restaurants. Yes, I definitely didn't. I didn't go to sushi restaurants as a kid because I was afraid of sushi. Did you go to Japanese rice? I guess so. When I was a kid. Japanese restaurants were sushi restaurants. Right case in so much. Yeah. So I don't remember. Like I don't think I had miso soup. A lot. When I was a kid. I definitely that's like the way I would have had me so as a kid, but I definitely do remember like getting to like drink the soup out of the bowl. I think I think I'm in fourth grade. We had a field trip. Like Like, like a class trip to Seattle. from Portland. And I know we went to a Japanese restaurant on that trip. And I bet there is miso soup there. And would you have would you have eaten it as a kid? Oh, yeah. I think I would have loved it. Yeah, I remember eating it as a kid when we would go to Oh my God, I'm blanking on the name. Oh, man. No, the sushi place that we would always go to in Cassidy square. No. near where I was growing up. I think it's just called Tokyo. Okay, or something Tokyo sushi where you grew up near near a place called Tokyo? Yeah, maybe you were in like Kawasaki or anyway, so this was a sushi restaurant in like northwest Oklahoma City. And it was the first place I ever remember even hearing of sushi as a child in a landlocked state. Yeah, I remember going there and they had you know those little like sort of plastic miso soup bowls. Yeah. And they would always have like shreds of seaweed and little tiny cubes of tofu floating. Yeah, miso soup. And I just remember being perplexed by why you had to stir it so much. And so constantly because the Misa Woods like you know, it kind of settles in there's

Unknown Speaker 2:12

a claim for the type of like, solution or colloidal suspension that that Misa forms in water like how it I know I've seen Harold McGee use the term No idea. Yes. Yeah, I do mean Harold McGee. I always say john McPhee, what I mean Harold McGee, and vice versa, but I think I'm correct this time. I don't think john McPhee would have written about me so soon. I don't know he's a very curious person. He is he is but I think of him more in terms of like, geography and oranges geography and oranges. Yeah, that's true. One could be known for far worse things. Oh, sure. Absolutely. Many people are anyway so yeah, I think I knew of me so only as this thing that like goes in soup. And or this thing that makes soup and then I remember buying packets of like miso soup mix. Yes. Do you remember that? Oh, absolutely. I remember that because I bought packets of miso soup mix within the last two weeks but I remember them not being you know, you can buy packets of miso soup mix that are basically pre portioned servings of Misa.

Molly 3:18

Yeah, with with like broth ingredients in them all. Yes. And but what I remember were these packets that were like kind of big, they were maybe like six by eight. They were kind of foil pouches. They had the tofu and the seaweed in there and I think it was a powder. Oh, yeah, you

Unknown Speaker 3:35

can definitely also get still get miso soup powder, which is not necessarily bad. No, no, I like I've had I've had ones of those that were quite tasty.

Molly 3:44

I'm sure the ones that I had were not high quality, but I remember always keeping them in the cupboard in the year of college that I had an apartment. And then I remember so while I was in college, I was in college from 97 to 2001. I was at Stanford. So I

Unknown Speaker 4:01

was

Unknown Speaker 4:02

I remember, it was very easy to find copies of the San Francisco Chronicle, which had a really good Wednesday food section. Sure. And anyway, we were just scattered like blowing around.

Unknown Speaker 4:15

pick one up, shut

Molly 4:16

up. Matthew. That was my first time ever really getting into like a newspapers food section. Oh, yeah. Like looking forward to Wednesdays because I wanted to read the food section. And it was my first time also ever paying attention to like, what restaurants were being written about. Like I'd never lived near a place where you would want to read where they were like, where there's a vibrant restaurant scene. Uh huh. Anyway, there was this restaurant at that time. I don't know if it's still in existence. A high end restaurant called Hawthorne lane. Okay, in San Francisco fancy. And it became known for its miso glazed black Cod. Oh, sure. That was that was a big popular dish. trannys right. Well, so I mean, as far as I remember. Certainly, you know, I was only on the West Coast at the time I remember Hawthorne lanes, miso glaze black Cod, sort of being pointed to as this like trend setter.

Unknown Speaker 5:11

Yeah, because there was the miso glaze black cotton and there's also the sock a Lee's black Cod. Both of those were super popular in the 90s I think I was scared of the idea of SOC a in the 90s. Still a little scared of it. Now. We should do a sock episode. We should we should good sock is very, very taste. I

Molly 5:29

remember having some with you in Tokyo at the eel restaurant we went to and really enjoying that. But I feel like I don't know how to order it and what I'm looking for. So anyway, but yeah, I remember for my birthday, one year, my parents came to town and I asked them to take me because I wanted to try this miso glazed black coffee. And there was no way I could afford to go to this restaurant, of course. And I remember maybe we went there for my 20th birthday dinner or something. And it was fine. It was really sweet. Yes. Sweet and rich. But anyway, those were my early notions of me. So and i think that i think that like a lot of at least, you know, white North Americans were learning about me. So around that time in the late 90s.

Unknown Speaker 6:12

Yeah, when it became sort of this trendy culinary ingredient, right and also, but like it had had a moment like decades earlier than that like with like the natural and macrobiotic foods that it was, it's always been something that's like a staple at like natural food and health food store. That's true because it can it's a fermented product. So it has a lot of the things in it that we you know, rave about health wise in fermented products, right. And also like is, you know, has lots of umami ingredient like, like umami features, right? Yes. And so and so like is very useful in vegetarian cooking to impart a savory taste.

Molly 6:51

You know, I grew up with the moosewood cookbook, and Molly cat sends one of her early books, the enchanted broccoli forest, that that whole era, she must have done a lot with me. So in the 70s and 80s. Yeah. So, Matthew, what's your memory? Oh, you did your memory lane.

Unknown Speaker 7:06

Yeah. Drinking miso soup promotable as a kid somewhere at some time. So I did the episode research, you did the episode. That was our mizo episode. Molly did it already. I wasn't even invited. Thanks a lot.

Molly 7:20

So when I do research for our episodes, I tend to write like a like a mini thesis and I get way in detail on things that probably I don't need to get into detail on this is gonna be great. So anyway, okay. So Matthew, what I'm saying here is Feel free to chime in if I'm getting something wrong, or if I am leaving out something interesting. Have you ever known me to not feel free to chime in? Absolutely not. Okay. So most of what I learned is from Wikipedia, okay. Be that as it may. So. So as as mentioned, mizo is a fermented product. It's a Japanese seasoning made from fermented soybeans. And it's fermented for anywhere from five days to several years. That's a big range, right? And it's made with so it's, you know, soybeans with salt and this thing called Koji, which is a type of fungus. It's a starter culture basically, it's made by introducing a certain type of mold, you want to pronounce this I like when the word introducing is used that way. So you introduce this certain type of mold Aspergillus or rise, you introduce it onto steamed white rice. And I guess that is the first step for creating the starter culture for me So yeah, and that that same starter culture is also used for making soccer. Oh, I didn't know that. Okay, very cool. me so of course sometimes contains other ingredients like other grains, barley, seaweed, brown rice, instead of white rice, etc, etc. Anyway, so as I imagine most of us have seen what results is this thick paste this thick savory paste that's used for like sauces, spreads, pickling vegetable, yes. Right. marinating marinating meats. You know what I didn't realize and now you just reaffirmed it for me today. So I think because I grew up making me so soup from one of those like powdered packets. I never knew until last night when I was doing this research. That miso soup is traditionally with a dashi stock and not with water.

Unknown Speaker 9:25

We talk about what that is. Yes. So hdaci is is a stock made from kombu a type of seaweed and fornito Yeah, so the most common dosh dosh just means broth in in Japanese and the most common dosha is made with with combo which is dried kelp and bonito flakes, which is smoke dried fish. Yeah, they're very easy to make. You can also make a combo dosha with just combo you can make like a dashi with dried mushrooms, but what is this one? This was bonito and kombucha. Okay. I was surprised I made dashi for the first time sometime last year I think I think I like poached cup. But just squashing it or something. And I was stunned by how easy it was to make it's very easy to make and it's very quick compared to like, you know, for our chicken stock yeah and it I mean hdaci serves like very different function in Japanese food than then I think chicken stock does in western food not I mean there's overlap certainly but like dosha is usually it's usually not salted You know, it picks up a tiny bit of salt from the from the seaweed and fish flakes, but it's it is there really just to contribute and umami backbone and a little bit of the of the like, smoky and seaweed flavor. Okay, but it's very mildly flavored and just has that like savory pucker to it kind of cool. Did you do like, make this dashi yesterday? Or? No, usually dosha is really best when you when you make it, like when you're going to use it. Okay, can it can sit overnight, maybe in the fridge, but it's not ideal. So did you make it just now I made it. This like, just before you came over, okay, because it only takes like 15 Yeah, and usually I buy the dashi mix which is which is not bad, but I apparently don't have any on hand but I did have some fish flakes and and combos so I made it from scratch. It took like five minutes.

Molly 11:13

Yeah. Okay, so anyway, so let's talk about the flavor of me so because I really didn't know anything about this so obviously we think of me so as being salty, which it is, but its flavor and its aroma all depend on the the other ingredients, of course on the solid content on the way that it's fermented and how long and unlike what vessel it's fermented it

Unknown Speaker 11:35

really

Unknown Speaker 11:36

Yes, all these things are you acting like you didn't know this? Well, I didn't know the thing about the vessel like is like if you if you like fermented like an old peanut can it has like a peanut flavor.

Molly 11:46

So in different regions, there are different types of vessels, be it wood or ceramic or whatever. Peanut cans. Yeah. Anyway, okay, this is directly from Wikipedia, but I thought that this was kind of cool. So many reactions occur among the components of me. So primarily the my yard reaction, I

Unknown Speaker 12:06

didn't know that either. I did not know that I think of the mired reaction as being something involving ducks or something involving heat and meat is what I think I mean, it's, it has to do with any kind of browning. Right? Well, any any kind of browning when when there's the presence of protein and carbohydrates, right, so yeah, would you would you explain the my yard reaction, it's a chemical reaction between variety of types of protein and a variety of types of carbohydrate that produce lots of different products that what they have in common tells me that they are brown in color and to have a complex flavor, much more complex flavor, then the thing you started with, yeah, okay. So it's like, you can really taste the importance of the mired reaction when you taste for instance, boiled beef compared to like a nicely seared steak. Yeah, or like like a like a steamed bun versus a baked bread.

Molly 13:00

Yes, yeah. Okay. So anyway, many reactions occur among the components of me. So primarily the my yard reaction and non enzymatic reaction of an amino group with a reducing sugar Okay, and protein with a carbohydrate. The volatile compounds produced from this reaction give me so it's characteristic flavor and aroma, depending on the micro organism in combination with the variety of soybean or grain used

Unknown Speaker 13:27

it as you actually soybean or cereal used. So I imagined someone like doubling down again at some Frosted Flakes, that was strictly

Molly 13:35

Wikipedia use the word cereal I prefer the word grain fine, many classes of flavor compounds are produced the give rise to the different types of mizo. And then then this this description goes on proteolysis of soybean protein. So the breaking down of soy proteins right, produces constituent amino acids that impart and umami taste, and enhance the relatively dull taste of the soybean itself. The umami effect of MSG itself is one dimensional however, the umami taste of miso is multi dimensional, because of all the different amino acids and fermentation products press

Unknown Speaker 14:12

right so you got your your glutamic acid, and you're the names of the other umami acids. Yeah, anyway, but I thought that was really interesting because yeah, I think you think of soybeans as having this kind of very mild flavor. Yeah. But then me so of course has like all this stuff going on with it. Well, that's what fermentation is all about, like aside from like, the preservative aspect. It's like breaking stuff down into things that have more and more varied flavors than the thing you started with. Yeah, yeah. And then you're like layering The, the dashi flavors on top of that. So it's like, like all Japanese food is pretty much like layering umami. What's also interesting to me is that the origin of me so it's not totally clear and that the different types of goods Rain and fish. Me sews and this is Wikipedia

Molly 15:04

in the sense of fermented paste. Yeah, yeah, that different types of grain and fish. Fermented pastes have been made in Japan, like, since the Neolithic era. So you know, as much as 14,000 years ago, these are called Joe mon me.

Unknown Speaker 15:19

So Jerome on the Jomon Period, is that word for the Neolithic period? is history. Okay, great. I'm glad somebody here knows that. That is the extent of what I know about Japanese history between between then and like, then I can pick up some stuff like starting like the 1850s. anything in between there. Nope. Okay. All right. Well, stay tuned because you're gonna get to pipe up again in a second. Okay,

Molly 15:40

so these early fermented fish and grain pastes are similar to other like early fish and soy based sauces, like maybe presumably like, you know, fish sauce in Thailand, or, you know, a variety of these fish based like fermented strongly flavored umami Esau shirts. So anyway, another mizo predecessor, was called Shi and originated in China. Because Misa is really high in protein and has a lot of vitamins and minerals. It was apparently very important as like a nutritional thing in feudal Japan. Makes sense. So Matthew, here, we're gonna we're gonna do a little bit more Wikipedia straight from Wikipedia history because I think this is interesting. All right, so in the Kama Cora period, which was 1192 to 1333. Okay, I remember it. Well. A common meal was made up of a bowl of rice, some dried fish, a serving of miso and a fresh vegetable with the miso have been eaten straight.

Unknown Speaker 16:39

Well, I think it would have been kind of mushed into the rice as you eat. Have you ever done that just taking straight me so and mixed into rice?

Unknown Speaker 16:45

No. I think that would be really strong with me. So as it's made today, I wonder, I wonder if the meter you're talking about is like kind of more rustic and less concentrated? I think my guess I think we're gonna get there in a second. So until the motomachi, period, which is 1337 to 1573. You'll notice there's a three year gap between those periods. It must have just been under. No, no, it was like everyone was got it like what are we gonna call the new period? And like it took a while? Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 17:14

Exactly.

Unknown Speaker 17:15

Oh, God, it was really intense anyway, until the motomachi. Period. me so was made without grinding the soybeans, somewhat like notto.

Unknown Speaker 17:24

Do you know the period we're in now? It's the one after the Edo period. No, there have been many there have been many since the Edo period. This is the day why era.

Unknown Speaker 17:34

Oh, okay. Okay, anyway, in the motomachi air era, I don't know if an era is the same as a period, Buddhist monks discovered that soybeans could be ground into a paste, which of course, you know, like really changed things. So in medieval times the word I'm gonna let you say this, Tim, I

Molly 17:52

me so meaning homemade me, so appeared. me so production is apparently pretty simple. So there were a lot of homemade versions in Japan during that time, is used as like military provisions for

Unknown Speaker 18:05

like, artillery, like like ammunition. Yeah, if you let it dry out, it becomes really hard. Okay, and you can even fire it from you know, what size are guns? What's that word? That means military stuff. That sounds like another word. This is gonna drive me crazy. Oh, man. it so it says something like personnel, but it means like military stuff. I'm gonna let you figure that out. Anyway, um, during the Edo period, so 1603 to 1868. me so was called he shio and cookie, and various types of me. So that fit within each local climate and culture emerged through Japan. So you can you got me so with tail. Wow. And also like, there was a popular, like, character during that period. It was like a monster that really loved me. So and would say kooky?

Unknown Speaker 19:00

Was he blue and furry was

Unknown Speaker 19:01

Yeah. So despite the fact that apparently according to Wikipedia, making me so is a pretty simple process today. It's mostly industrially made. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of things like that, right? Well, baking bread is not very complicated, but most people don't do it at home. But I wonder if this also is why it is much stronger now. Like, I just wonder if there's something about the industrial processing that Well, I think, I think here's a absolute wild guess which is that when you when you produce the industrial me, so you want it to have shelf stability, and so it needs to be pretty salty and not very wet in order to last for a while on the shelf. And so that means it's going to be stronger than something you would make at home and eat over the course of a few days or weeks. Okay. And these industrial misos which is you know what most of us get I often have calcium added to them I guess it's part of the process and sometimes like soup stocks, so you can like make soup from it directly without having to do dashi separately. And then increasingly people are playing around with non soybean musos like he chewed so chemo ami so um you know the the restaurant camo naggy in Seattle watsco Soma. She makes me so from this is not a joke. Fermented cheddar jalapeno bagels. I bet that's incredible. Yeah. Does it sound great? Yes. That's amazing. Yeah, there Oh, there's something we we glossed over here which is that did you know that I keep I think keep saying Did you know that I didn't want that to be like the sound of my voice you know,

Unknown Speaker 20:50

where are you going to

Unknown Speaker 20:52

do all the places you'll go

Unknown Speaker 20:54

live

Unknown Speaker 20:57

my parents listened to that. That Diana Ross higher through my entire child. Okay. Soy Sauce originated as runoff from making me so this makes sense. So like you you've got your your soybean I guess it's not curds? Well, you didn't curdle it but but like, you know, you're pressing stuff into into like a cake of paste and stuff is gonna run off. And of course that stuff is going to have lots of umami flavor compounds and stuff too. I mean, this makes me think about the way that that fish sauce is made. You know, you've got all these anchovies all the salt there, I've

Unknown Speaker 21:30

got what do i do and you're

Unknown Speaker 21:32

pressing them down and what runs off is fish sauce. I wonder what they do with the anchovy itself like the press down solids? I don't know. Anyone anyone with anchovy pressing experience, please get in touch contact at spilled milk podcast calm or facebook.com slash build not podcast, what do you do?

Molly 21:51

Okay, and what you do so me so is usually classified by a number of different like secret. So me so is classified by grain type, color, taste and and sometimes region of origin. We probably don't get a lot of those regional ones in the States. Oh,

Unknown Speaker 22:06

we you'd be surprised if you go to if you go to a Japanese supermarket. Yeah, absolutely. Okay, like not not as many as you would find in Japan, but you can certainly find like a Kyoto mizo and like a Naga yummy. So it's Yeah,

Molly 22:19

okay. Well, the most common one most widely produced, the most common ones that we see are white and red. Yes, most widely produced one is white, which is also shadow me so right. That's what it's called. And then there's also one that's like, mixed me So have you ever had that one or seen it?

Unknown Speaker 22:38

Yes. And I have also like just mixed red and white. Nice. I was at home for making soup. Like this is a really common thing that Japanese home cooks do. Like they'll have like three different kinds of miso in their fridge and like when they're making me so soup just kind of take us spoonful of each of them because I get it you know, it sort of feels like you're doing a little more cooking than if you were just using one and get a little more flavor diversity well and white me so like generally has a flavor profile that is sweet. And in terms of umami flavor, it's on the lighter, softer and so it has from what I understand it has gone through less of a mild reaction than red meat. That makes sense. And it also has less more rice and less soybean. Okay, and am I correct that both like red and white me so is that we usually encounter our rice based boat. Yeah, typically both of them have rice are made with rice, but like a different amount of rice.

Molly 23:34

Okay. Okay. Yeah. So will you talk a little bit more about different miso types? Because this part like I really don't know a lot. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 23:41

so definitely something that I have found that I don't know if this is interesting or not is like, I think white miso is considered like the most approachable maybe for someone who doesn't have a lot of mizo experience. I think actually read me so is probably a better first me so really, yeah, because because white nice oh is quite mild. And I think there's like people who have it for the first time. There's a tendency of like, I don't really like get what I'm tasting. Whereas read me so we'll like hit you with like, this is the flavor of me. So

Molly 24:11

which one did you use? And this is all red. Oh, really? Yes. Okay, so I have white me so at home that I bought particularly to make three different recipes that I made all actually last night for dinner. One was kind of a it was a it was a quite like American Health foodie recipe using me so yeah, it was delicata squash potatoes, cubed extra firm tofu, kind of marinated in a mixture of miso, olive oil and a little bit of Thai red curry paste. Okay. And then you roast all those things. You take some of the leftover marinade and you add lemon juice to it. you toss torn kale with the lemon juice. So with this delicious like miso lemon curried Pressing yeah and then you toss all of it together

Unknown Speaker 25:02

that sounds good it also sounds to me like the mizo could easily be so was totally lost. It was delicious and the Musa was totally lost. The other thing I made which also was just a dumb use of me so was a recipe for me so glazed salmon, it's you know, it's winter, it's not fresh salmon season all the salmon is previously frozen, which can still be good,

Molly 25:21

which can still be good, but I often think it has a stronger flavor, which I don't love. I mean like usually when I buy salmon, I just cook it very, very simple and don't do a lot of flavorings to it. This time I bought some sockeye and used a miso glaze recipe that was mirin sock a little bit of brown sugar. Miso miso was the was the primary ingredient in it. limes asked. It just tastes to kind of sweet and muddy. Yeah. And then I made some miso brownies. Okay,

Unknown Speaker 25:55

can I taste one?

Unknown Speaker 25:56

Yes. What I should also say though, is that they are vegan Matthew. I did weird Shan with me so you don't even taste the meat so in these Do you know what do you think of this? I think I think the the middle feels like a little like under done. But yeah, it's supposed to be like that. I think it is supposed to be like that. What do you think the flavor is pretty good. What do you think about the texture? I don't love it are really weird. Do you know what that texture is? Are you about to tell me? It's ground up chia seeds mixed with water? Which leaves me out and I know that this is very like narrow minded of me. Everybody's into chia these days. Is everybody into chia seeds and no with water because they become like the texture of egg whites. They become very like snappy. Like, you told me after I taste it. It's weird right?

Unknown Speaker 26:48

Now I'm not sold but

Unknown Speaker 26:50

either but I think that this is a dumb use of me so and I it just feels gimmicky to me. So in Kyoto, but if I were vegan, I think I'd be super psyched because it's a very good brownie. Like it's a very good brownie for one that contains absolutely no animal ingredients. Sure. I agree. The Misa that's associated with Kyoto is called psycho me so and it's like a very white miso. And Kyoto like Kyoto cooking is like kind of the the land of like, mild flavors like letting the ingredients speak for themselves. Okay, and so it's you know, it's made us to make soup of course it's it's it's used to make the New Year's soup Oh czone which is like made. It's a very light miso soup made with with a cake of mochi, and you eat that for New Year's. And it's used for married AIDS. It's really interesting for the Moshi is in the Moshi, what am I talking about? The

Unknown Speaker 27:42

motion is in the ocean.

Unknown Speaker 27:44

But the mochi is in a bowl of froth. Yes. It's like vegetables. Awesome. Wow, that's really cool, but it's in it's savory mochi. Yes.

Unknown Speaker 27:52

Okay. Wow. That sounds really interesting texturally like I imagine that it's like nothing else I've ever had. Absolutely Yeah, when last year not not this new year's when I was in Japan but last year when I was also in Japan and New Year's we were staying with friends in Fukuoka and the the mom me lightning made two different kinds of czone the like Fukuoka style and Osaka style and Osaka style is very similar to the Kyoto style I think it's like one one was made with white miso and one I think without no with a different blend of me so I'm not remembering the details but it was really cool to to get to try both styles of new year's Super

Unknown Speaker 28:33

nice

Unknown Speaker 28:34

very cool read me so is popular all over and and like so is watching me so which is like a mix of red and white me so hot show me so is I think probably the third most popular style and it's a very rich long fermented salty me so I think made with just soybeans, not rice. And it's from IKEA prefecture which is where nagaya is I think it actually originates outside of Naga yeah but like that that's like the like center of center of Han Shu Island like is associated with this really gutsy me so I have some in my fridge that someone brought me from Japan and I need to open it and do something with it. It's really good with meat How long does me so last once you've opened it? I'm glad you asked the answer is a long time like certainly it will be fine for a year in the fridge because it's fermented and has little water and lots of salt however the packaging that you usually get me so in at a at a supermarket is terrible where it's like a plastic tub usually has a foil seal over peel off and throw away plastic lid and plastic will not stay on and even if it does, it provides like no air tightness so

Unknown Speaker 29:45

what should I do

Unknown Speaker 29:45

so I found lately you know like the the plastic containers that have like the the lid that clicks on by like clicking like around the edge like snaps

Unknown Speaker 29:55

now

Unknown Speaker 29:56

Yes. I have found like even just me local supermarket they sell a size of this that is almost exactly the size of a one pound mizo container rail and it's and it's got a great airtight seal so I bought a few of these for like $3 each and every time I buy me so it can fit right into one of those and click the lid on and it's good for as long as I need it. Ah, okay, well I don't have one of those but I'm guessing I could just do can't my me so into anything else that is approximately the right size but get one of those clicky clicky things are so fun. I have a bunch of the clicky things but I just

Unknown Speaker 30:29

said you don't have one

Unknown Speaker 30:30

well, but if I don't have one that's the rights Okay, is what I'm getting for your birthday. What what brand Do you like of clicky clicky thing? Oh, I mean, if me so? That's a good question. So I will usually buy I'm not brand loyal. But I like I like a brand that is imported from Japan and as mostly Japanese on the label. I don't know if that actually makes it better. Just makes me feel good about buying it. Great. Okay, but there are also I mean, there have been like a lot of like, American brands of mizo like like made really well coming on the market and I don't like I don't have a particular preference among those, but some of those are very good also. Okay, and what is the general proportion of me so to dashi when you're making me so soup? Oh, I usually just kind of do it by feel. That's a good question. I feel I feel like it's gonna be like, a scant tablespoon per serving and might be a little high of like, per per bowl. But like, you know, when when you make miso soup, like you You push the Misa through a strainer usually and like you can Yeah, I'll show you my Misa strainer. nicely.

Unknown Speaker 31:39

Okay.

Unknown Speaker 31:41

And so I usually like like a total like someone who's like just arrived on this planet.

Unknown Speaker 31:48

I mean, have you

Unknown Speaker 31:50

like how do how do they do things on your planet? And when I say we make miso soup on my planet, we we don't strain

Unknown Speaker 31:59

so it's always real chunky.

Unknown Speaker 32:03

I think I've never made me so soup from miso soup.

Unknown Speaker 32:07

Planet. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 32:13

whatever we do, we do it chunk style. Okay, um, what what is the food product that's labeled chunk styles are like canned fruit. Because there's something that actually says chunk style of a label and it's a chunk styles are really fun things. I'm pretty sure that one of our listeners is gonna know this. Okay. I mean, there's like chunk light tuna, but that chunk style. Okay, but later, we're gonna Google chunks. See what happens. I think we're gonna be happy no matter what. What was the question? Oh, so so we will post a I bet probably just one cookbook.com has has a great basic miso soup recipe, and we'll link to that in the show notes. It's billed by podcast calm, but when I make it like I will just kind of like, you know, put in a tablespoon or two for a couple of servings and the taste and see if it needs a little more. But I can usually tell based on the color of the soup. Like how concentrated it looks. This sounds like a real brag.

Unknown Speaker 33:11

Yeah, I

Unknown Speaker 33:12

shouldn't have I just have a feel for that sort of thing. odd. Okay, wait, when we were in Tokyo, that sounds like a real brag Tim, when we were in Tokyo. We just scrapped this episode. Yeah. When we were in Tokyo, we had this very, like, unexpected and extremely delicious. cabbage salad type thing, right? Oh, this

Unknown Speaker 33:32

is so good. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 33:33

And so weird. So it came out as like a bowl of like a wedge of cabbage kind of, you know, you could pull it apart into its leaves. Do you think it was like Taiwanese cabbage or just I think the basic green cabbage that you get in Japan is closer to what we would call a Taiwanese cabbage than like a super dense American green cabbage

Molly 33:50

the leaves I think of as being a little thinner than Yeah, typical, you know, green cabbage in the US. Anyway, so this bowl came with a wedge of cabbage in it that you could easily separate into leaves and then there was like a little crock with this kind of thick, medium brown kind of lumpy looking taste in it.

Unknown Speaker 34:11

So I think that was made with hot to me so like the really dense salty kind, okay, it's like really dark red and then it's for the for the dip it's usually mixed with some some subset of sugar mirin, soy sauce, garlic chili flakes, and so we we spooned up little bits of this like very sticky, thick style

Unknown Speaker 34:32

saw. It was chunkster onto our plates. I mean, it was really like almost like the texture of peanut butter but like a little more

Unknown Speaker 34:37

elastic.

Unknown Speaker 34:38

Yeah, I bet there is a particular region of Japan that this dish is associated with but I don't know offhand what it is but that restaurant we spooned the this dressing or this dip onto our plates, and then we would take you know, a leaf of cabbage kind of like roll it up and kind of drag it through this dip and then just eat it. It was so delicious. Yeah, this is something I need to try making at home. Hey, I've got that. Do that fancy me so in my fridge I just said I need to open and do something with its cabbage time. It is cabbage time. All right, yeah. Okay, so another thing we were we climbed a mountain we did climb we climbed Well, most of the way up Mount to cow haha in the sense that we took the chairlift halfway up and then walked like 1000 additional feet that made me on the way like somewhere between the chairlift and the temple where we where we ended our hike. There was a stand selling miso, miso glaze Dongo, which are mochi balls grilled on a stick. They were so delicious, delicious. It's isn't there an emoji for dango there is. It's like the like, like colorful balls on a stick. Yes, these were more these were more muted in color in flavors. So, so delicious and like lacquered in this miso sauce. Yeah, sweet, savory. Oh my god, they were so good. Yes. Great. Next time Next time you're you're climbing a mountain, like like doing a very, very gentle. Go eat some of those. There is a dish that I was thinking about making today and didn't get to it. That's me. So stewed macro. And I feel like this is a really old school like Japanese lunch counter dish. So you and I once went out to a little Japanese restaurant on pike or pine. In Seattle, I guess it was on Pike, I think okay, and we had like a Japanese lunch and I had broiled me so they're Brio excuse me broiled macaroni and something else and Do you remember where we were was that well, we I don't remember the name of that place, but I know which place you mean it was delicious. Like close to Broadway right? back Why don't we go there more often? That was probably a salt broiled macro Okay, so not this would be like, like braised in me so for like up till the fish starts to kind of fall apart. See, I sell my fight after all these years. And so it's like a really like rich savory warming dish.

Unknown Speaker 37:04

Oh, that's not what I

Unknown Speaker 37:06

mean. They salt salt grow. Grilled mackerel is also great, but it was more like sort of it was it was it was not sauced Yeah, no, this is this is like I like a saucy saucy boy. That's awesome.

Unknown Speaker 37:17

Wow.

Unknown Speaker 37:18

Okay, well, I would love to come over a different time. And you can make it from Yeah, I don't think I've ever made it. I would like to, you could maybe post a recipe or we could link to a recipe.

Unknown Speaker 37:27

Book What happened? That's possible.

Unknown Speaker 37:29

Anyway,

Unknown Speaker 37:30

so it's just becoming a just one cookbook? fancast I think it is. Okay. Anyway, so, so, um, yeah, we've talked about a lot of different uses of me. So I would be curious to hear from some people who have used me so in maybe a non vegan brownie. But I don't know if we can handle the onslaught of emails and we're gonna get that non vegan miso brownie content but I really liked the idea of like the depth of flavor from Yes. Oh, absolutely. And with chocolate I

Unknown Speaker 38:06

wish I could get more you know

Unknown Speaker 38:08

what I've put me so in that was really good is mashed potatoes. Really were like, again, you it doesn't come out tasting like me so but it's just like gives it like a savory backbone. Kinda. Did you use white or red? I believe I used white me so okay for that. Cool. Oh, that sounds great. All right. So you can find us online at build mouth podcast, calm and facebook.com slash build mouth podcast. Like I also want to know like, you know what, they're all kinds of mizo dishes that we did not Oh my God, I end up talking about this time time. I would like to hear like, what do you do with it? And you can find us on Instagram at spilled milk podcast, please rate and review the show wherever you find it. Our producers Abbey circuit tele. And until next time, thank you for listening to spelled mouth, the show that's eaten dango on a stick. I mean, that's factually true. And all of our closing jokes are we try and stick to the facts. That's the most important Yeah, I'm Matthew Amster-Burton. I'm Molly weissenberg. You should be so lucky. Seriously, we should all be so lucky. Yep.